Your Health Isn't Your Symptoms—It's Your Cellular Terrain

Dr. Nick (00:01) Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Integrative You Radio. I am Dr. Nick and I am blessed today with Dr. Jess. We got into, I think, at least a dozen quick side tangents before this, and I had to stop them on every single one. I was like, whoa, whoa, wait, Dr Jess Armine (00:15) Sorry about that. Dr. Nick (00:17) wait, wait. This is this is good shit. We're gonna we're gonna talk about this later. So here we are. So really quick, Dr. Jess, introduce yourself, tell us about yourself, your practice, and then we'll get in deep. Dr Jess Armine (00:30) Thanks so much, Dr. Mick. I appreciate appreciate the opportunity to talk with you today and share some information with your audience. My name is Dr. Jess Armine. Okay. I've been in healthcare one form or another for 50 years. Starting around 1975, I became an EMT in New York City and became one of the first paramedics there. and that was interesting because that's when that TV show Emergency was on. And everybody in the world's saying, why don't we have paramedics for pre-hospital emergency care? So I did that and simultaneously I I went to nursing school. I went to college for nursing and graduated with a BS in nursing in 1978. So my nursing career was partially in the Army and obviously beyond that, and I did mostly emergency department nursing and critical care. I used to be head nurse over caronary intensive care unit. I became interested in going beyond. Please excuse me. Going beyond the what I c saw as limiting parameters of of healthcare and decided to become a doctor. And so I looked into medical school, but ultimately decided on chiropractic school, chiropractic college. and I went there and graduated in nineteen eighty six and w started tra started working traditionally as a chiropractor. I found that limiting. Because the di the diagnosis set was like that's easy, you know. And I wasn't I couldn't get into the hype involved in the politics and you know, I'm not that kind of person. I started getting interested in w the broader complementary or integrative medicine concepts out there. throughout that time I started, you know, learning different things and unfortunately one of my children developed schizophrenia. And Being a good dad, I took him to the psychiatrist. Now, this very bright, intelligent boy who at ten years of age read Dante's Inferno and understood it and explained it to me, which makes me believe he's really not from this planet, but that's besides the point. Dr. Nick (02:44) Yeah. Dr Jess Armine (02:45) he'll t he would tell you that at the time, I am an alien. I said, now you proved it to me. But the medicines that they gave him made him a non-entity. Literally, he was sitting on the couch doing this. Dr. Nick (02:56) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (02:56) And I'm I'm also a religious person, so I was praying, and but I got very angry, very angry. Dr. Nick (03:04) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (03:04) And I literally said to our higher powers that this disease is messing with the wrong daddy. And I launched into learning a lot of different things about neurotransmitter balances and just like anything else in the universe, people, you know, when you have a true desire for something, spirit, whatever, will put that information in front of you, courses. people who do it, that kind of stuff. And that's exactly what happened. So over time I developed an expertise in genetics. Goes into the very beginnings of the genetics craze. Okay, so I know all the guys who are doing that because I was part of it. And so I can read entire genetic profiles and tell you what they're about. in a concept called neuroendoimmunology, which is a relationship between the nervous system, the and the hormone system, and the immune system, and how they interact to balance your body. Okay, I be got an interest and expertise in mitochondrial function and a small area that most people don't consider, which is cell membrane integrity, which is Dr. Nick (04:06) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (04:08) so you talk about leaky gut, leaky cells, leaky brain, which is by the way, a a shameless plug from my book on Amazon. Okay. But nevertheless, I started doing this kind of work and I started seeing I started attracting people who have Had chronic illnesses that hadn't gotten success elsewhere. The more people like that I got, the more I started to notice a particular area that had never been truly considered, therefore not treated. And as we discussed, it's called a terrain, or what I used to call foundation. Okay. And the creation of what's now known as terrain treatment, or what I started with foundational treatment, I was one of the originators of it. And what that is, is paying attention to cellular function. Okay. Not exclusive of the downstream effect, which we call a diagnosis, right? But that was the thing not being treated. So when you had these people getting being ill and whatever root causes were el allegedly eradicated, assuming that they believed there was a root cause for lots of different things, the reason they weren't getting better was because the terra was not being treated. If his cell's not functioning well, remember cells for you know put cells together. Dr. Nick (05:24) And I don't I don't think maybe everybody might not understand what terrain means. So can you explain what the terrain actually means? Dr Jess Armine (05:33) Okay. Absolutely. Think think about the terrain of anything. Okay, so what is the terrain of your body? Well, it's your cellular function, 'cause put cells together, you got tissues, put tissues together, you get organs. Put organs together, you get body. So if at the very basis of anything in your body is not working with the cell for different reasons, okay, it's you're not gonna be able to heal. So when you think about terrain in this sense, you think about cellular function and very often, almost ninety-nine point nine percent of the time, it's gut function. Okay, why the gut is not working. Okay, remember that eighty percent of your immune system's with the gut. So Dr. Nick (06:15) Yep. Dr Jess Armine (06:15) if that's not working correctly, and we're not gonna you know, not argue about concepts, your body's not. So that's kinda your terrain. It's not just a microbiome with probiotics, it's the entire function. So cellular function is the terrain. Okay, is that and we use the word terrain because the concept is much easier to to, you know, visualize. Dr. Nick (06:37) Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, it's like you're going to plant a garden and you can put in organic vegetables and organic fruits, but if the soil's crap, it doesn't have any nutrients, the terrain Dr Jess Armine (06:48) Mm-hmm. Exactly. Dr. Nick (06:50) can't actually grow healthy crops. So it it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you throw at it. The the Dr Jess Armine (06:53) Exactly true. One hundred percent. Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (06:57) terrain, the foundation, as you mentioned, it it's unable Dr Jess Armine (07:01) Yeah. Dr. Nick (07:01) to actually support life. Dr Jess Armine (07:06) And taking that example to another in another direction, if you start putting artificial stuff in there, you know, or put organophosphates like roundup to kill the things around it, that gets absorbed and then the fruit becomes I won't say less functional, but not as healthy. Very not as healthy. So when you're putting, you know but Dr. Nick (07:27) Well it creates a different function, you know. It actually genetically modifies it. Dr Jess Armine (07:32) yeah, it can genetically modify it. And things like organophosphates and Roundup actually get into the plant and get into the soil and get into the water. And if you if you want to know why Roundup, which is an organophosphate, works so quickly, it stops the mitochondrial function in the plant. So you've seen it Dr. Nick (07:50) Yep. Dr Jess Armine (07:50) happen in hours. Ew. So what do you think it's doing to you? I mean mitochondria or mitochondria. You may have thirty trillion cells with one thousand to a hundred thousand mitochondria per cell, you do the math, okay. But it's gonna degrade the overall function. Add that to other things that are thrown at us or at the plant. And you're gonna have Dr. Nick (08:10) Well and listeners, really quick, think of back in your school age, your mitochondria is the your powerhouse. It what gives you all your power. So if your mitochondria does not function, you don't have power. If you don't have power Dr Jess Armine (08:18) Mm-hmm. Exactly, exactly. By the conjure Dr. Nick (08:26) Carry on, carry on. Dr Jess Armine (08:27) You can heal. Dr. Nick (08:28) Yep. Dr Jess Armine (08:28) But so for people who need to know a little bit about mitochondrial function, let me give you thirty seconds on it. I told you the enormity of how many are in there. Think of the function as not on or off. Think of it as percentage. Let's say normal is ninety five percent energy output. Now you can heal, now you can walk, now you can do everything you want to do, and you feel good in the morning and sleep well and so forth and so on. You get an acute problem like strep throat, that may drop to about eighty percent. You feel terrible. That resolves with antibiotics, whatever, and all of a sudden you're back up to the ninety-five percent. But when you start getting chronic illnesses, things that last more than three months, that percentage slowly drops with each thing that is added to it. So let's say it gets down to about seventy-five percent. Now you don't have the energy you used to have. Okay. You're still sitting up looking at me, but you'll sit there and say, I'm just getting old. Okay, now comes COVID. And the vaccinations with something called the spike protein, which is the thing that injures you, and that directly affects the mitochondrial function, dropping it from that 75 to about 55. And the and long COVID is people who have not been able to resolve from that, not just the virus, but the dysfunctions that happened from the virus, they have to detox from that. Mitochondrial output. You can live with fifty percent output. That doesn't mean you're gonna be able to do your activities, you're gonna have the same energy, and since it's so long term, you start assigning it to other things or somebody's gonna tell you it's in your head. Dr. Nick (10:07) Body's very good at delegating, fortunately and unfortunately. Dr Jess Armine (10:09) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (10:11) So when you talk about terrain therapy and you know how a lot of physicians and the foundation of medicine is focused on treating symptoms, what would you say is the biggest problem in healthcare today? Dr Jess Armine (10:26) The biggest problem in healthcare today is is twofold. What the mainfold is Sometimes you call it medical gaslighting. Okay, and essentially because all right, let me call spade a spade. We've been The d physicians have been conditioned over time by their training. They're not stupid and they care, but by their training they were taught very constantly and that I you have to depend on these tests to make your diagnosis for you, which is not true. Okay, in the old days, if you will, if you went to your family doctor and you had you were losing your hair and you're wearing a jumper or a sweater and it's ninety five degrees out, or if you're in England thirty seven, thirty eight degrees out, something like that, okay, and you're still cold and you're gaining weight for no reason, your doctor will look at you and say, You have hypothyroidism, low thyroid function to start treating you even if you had a a normal test in your hand. Now, these days They can't even treat it unless the test shows it. That doesn't mean that you're normal. These tests have reference ranges. They're not normal ranges, they're reference ranges. And those don't necessarily tell you you're healthy. I'll give you a cute example. You can test for dopamine levels, a neurotransmitter, and the range is zero to one ninety. Does that mean zero is good for you having no dopamine? Okay. I'm serious. And the the way they get these Dr. Nick (12:00) No, yeah. It's Dr Jess Armine (12:01) the way they get these ranges, they do a hundred thousand tests and they and and they do a bell curve. Okay. So tell us Dr. Nick (12:06) Well and the rain and they're these range aren't on quote unquote people that are thriving. It's it's it's on sick people too. And it's just like it makes zero sense. Dr Jess Armine (12:11) Right, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. It makes zero sense. But the biggest glitch in medicine in my estimation is a lack of taking a proper history. Okay, because if you want to know what's wrong with someone, you need to do an in-depth history. This is why. You know, a again, in the pre-1970 areas you have a family doctor, a GP, the typical doctor who knew you since you were a baby, knew your family, knew your history. We don't have that anymore. So if you but if you learn to sit down, like my histories take an hour and a half. Okay, I Dr. Nick (12:47) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (12:47) can do that 'cause I'm not under insurance and stuff like that. But if I do a history like that and get from the time they're inside their mom's belly all the way till now, I'm gonna find out what's wrong. If I learn to listen, if I know, you know, what questions to ask and what they mean. today the doctors are allowed fifteen minutes of patient if they're lucky. That's not their fault. That's being corporate the corporations pushing them to that. Okay, they're stuck. They're stuck. All right. And they're stuck in that thinking that if it's not if the tests are normal, then you don't have what it is that you think you have. So if you have all those symptoms of the hypothyroidism that I just and you don't have a proper test that says that, then guess what? It's not that or it's all in your head. Okay, so when Dr. Nick (13:38) Well. Dr Jess Armine (13:39) they get frustrated, they say it must be a psychiatric problem. Okay. Yeah, at least. Dr. Nick (13:42) And I think it's twofold, or at least twofold, is the foundation is the quality of your life is dictated by the quality of the questions you ask. So if Dr Jess Armine (13:50) Exactly. Dr. Nick (13:50) if a doctor doesn't have the time or doesn't take the time to ask those quality questions, they can't even Dr Jess Armine (13:56) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (13:56) actually run the proper test because they don't have a foundation to know what to test. Dr Jess Armine (14:00) Exactly. Dr. Nick (14:02) And then on that side of the the medical system is they can't run a full panel. You know, they're running two markers out of out of eight or twelve. Dr Jess Armine (14:08) my God. th I I agreed. I agree. Yeah. Dr. Nick (14:11) And you know, that's that's you can't without data, whether it's through a health questionnaire or actually the full data of labs, you can't make an intelligent decision. And then Dr Jess Armine (14:22) Can't. Hey, remember that. go ahead. Dr. Nick (14:25) well, and then it's it's it's all in your head. And part Dr Jess Armine (14:28) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (14:28) of it might be, you know, a mental distress and emotional. That's the other part that's the other part of terrain that that's the other part of terrain that people Dr Jess Armine (14:32) Yes, if you're scared, you know, all the time you don't know what's wrong. Dr. Nick (14:37) don't talk about. They talk about the physical terrain Dr Jess Armine (14:39) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (14:40) and they don't Dr Jess Armine (14:40) Right. Dr. Nick (14:40) You know, like we were talking one of the tangents with the the integrative aspect is, you know, there's a lot of integrative buzziness out there, but there's really not many true integrative practitioners. So f Dr Jess Armine (14:53) True. Absolutely true. Dr. Nick (14:54) from your definition, you know, you've been quote unquote practicing, and I call it practice because like you said, you know, you learn from being a nurse and there's limits. You learn from being a Dr Jess Armine (15:03) Yeah. Dr. Nick (15:03) chiropractor, there's limits. And it was our same journey as well, is like finally led you into. true integrative medicine. So through your perspective and your lens, what is actually true integrative medicine? Dr Jess Armine (15:18) True integrative medicine would be a meshing or an agreement or a cooperation between traditional medicine and let's call it non-traditional medicine, alternative medicine, whatever you'd like to call it. Because traditional medicine can't cure everything, nor can alternative medicine. But together, we're going to be looking truly holistically at the body. When I say holistically, I don't mean I'm going to swing a dead chicken over your head or use crystals. What I mean is. We have two different points of view. They're a bit on the opposite side, but they interact w when it comes to symptoms. Okay. Dr. Nick (15:57) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (15:59) And I may look at something and say, Well, this dysfunction or this genetic pathway says that they're not gonna recycle glutathione, for instance, and L C B that might cause mitochondrial problems, but on the other end, they're having undiagnosed fatigue and the medical doctors done all the all the tests and just everything's sitting in the reference ranges. If we got together and were able to look at that particular case with a proper history, we could come up with a much better set of possibilities that are going to be more accurate. Okay. The reason I'm successful what I do, but I'm not the first people, the first person I see, I'm usually a 10th or 12th. So if I listen and find out what happened, what didn't happen, what worked, what didn't work, and so forth and so on, it's kinda easier for me to figure out what's left over. Okay, what hasn't been treated, what hasn't been considered. So true integrative medicine would be are two professions meshing or to have one person who is very well trained in both areas. And knows the significance of things. Okay. And Dr. Nick (17:09) On Dr Jess Armine (17:09) never, ever, ever, ever, ever says the words that can't happen. That will get you thrown in my courses. Exactly. Yeah. Dr. Nick (17:14) Well that's just a a balanced perspective, you know. It we you talk about gathering data to make the best decision for the client or even yourself. You know, Dr Jess Armine (17:21) Right, exactly. Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (17:24) it's if you're only looking at through one lens, through traditional, or one lens through non-traditional, you're missing half of the information, half of the possibilities, which doesn't make any sense when you step back and you think about it. So to be whole is to have the awareness of both sides. And Dr Jess Armine (17:45) Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Nick (17:46) when we do, magic can happen. Dr Jess Armine (17:50) Exactly. You know, that's why people who come see me or or or people like me, you know, will get much better results because we look at it and say, Hmm, that's not working. You know, I wonder why. Or they say something and s instead of saying that can't happen, I sit there and go, I wonder why that happened. Let me go back. Let me go let me re examine this stuff. sadly, the the traditional medical practice doesn't lend itself to taking a long history. So you sit in the doctor's office, you fill out a history form, you go in and see the doctor. Nobody really reads that. Or they send a physician extender in. Now if you're talking about a physician assistant, a nurse practitioner, it's usually a lot better, but a lot of times it's an assistant looking at it. Okay? And the only person who should take a history is a physician himself or herself because they have the training to understand what the possibilities are based on what that patient said and then ask the proper questions. You sit there and go, Okay, well, gee, if this all started when you were when you were in fourth grade and your mental state got, you know, you had AD D and then it got worse and now you've got ag you know agoraphobia and you're forty five years old and you've got so much anxiety you can't leave the house. Let me go back to there and see what happened, you know? And then they s tell you something like, Gee, I lost my taste for meat that and just as a side comment, once you get them conversing. And you sit there and go, Do you guys do a lot of camping? Like, yeah, we always went camping. Well, there's a certain kind of Lyme disease that causes that particular symptom. Okay? Aphagal syndrome, it's called. I well guess what? This poor person was suffering from neural Lyme, which burgeoned and created more dysfunction. Now he can't function. I started with the ther terrain therapy. Dr. Nick (19:33) And na and nowadays it's not even just from ticks. You know, you can get it from mosquitoes, you can get it from spiders, you can get it from anything. Dr Jess Armine (19:37) No, it absolutely you can get it you can pay Dr. Nick (19:41) Yeah. Dr Jess Armine (19:41) Yeah, it's true. But the fact is that you go back and all of a sudden the possibility opens up, then if you want you can test for it and you find out it's there. Okay. You know, I had a a young lady who was eight years old and she had multiple hallucinations, olfactory, auditory, and visual. And they were gonna put her on y on anti psychotics. Okay, eight years old, that made me angry. You know, I I did a good history and then did the testing. She had Lyme disease, anaplasma, candida, and H H V six, which is a herpes because in the brain. I treated those things. In about six weeks she was fine. Now that was a while ago. Now she's gr she now graduated college. She graduated she gradued from graduate school with a degree in nutrition degree in nutrition and she's going to medical school next year. Okay. Dr. Nick (20:36) Nice. Dr Jess Armine (20:37) Yeah, she's a beautiful lady. You know, and every time I they keep in contact with me. Every time I get a card about what she's done I start crying, you know, because what was gonna happen then was she was gonna be a disabled person because they didn't believe that there were root causes for that. Okay. And even if they treated that, they wouldn't have treated the terrain. But that's why, you know, a a good history tells you what's going on. but only the physician level person. should do that because they're not gonna pick up that I've been here, I wonder what could have happened. You know? that's training and experience. That's what you pay for. That's Dr. Nick (21:11) It's it's the little it's little things that nobody thinks important that is that is the most important. Yep. A hundred percent. Dr Jess Armine (21:18) where that's where the pearls are. Dr. Nick (21:20) Yep. So my my wife and I had a really big practice in Jersey about 10 years ago. And we did a questionnaire and it was what did you this to our clients, what we sent it out to different communities, et cetera, and what they thought was the most important thing in their doctor. And we were actually surprised, not surprised, but surprised about the actual result. Trust. Trust was the number one thing that they wanted with their doctor. Dr Jess Armine (21:53) Absolutely. Absolutely. Dr. Nick (21:56) So when I say that, what comes to mind? Dr Jess Armine (21:58) Mm-hmm. Well, trust is not accuracy and diagnosis. Trust is you've listened to me. Okay, you've listened to me and you've acknowledged that what I have is real. Okay? And then if you know how to talk to people and you've done your investigation and they can follow you along, and you come up with, gee, I believe it's this because of this and this, and this is how we're gonna go about fixing it, and this is and this is how and why. Not using technical language. I mean I do my lectures all the time. I talk to people on cartoons and and examples. You know, it's not important that they understand the the nuances of something, not because I'm trying to h hide it from them and they're not gonna be impressed that I can pronounce polysyllabic terms. Doesn't matter. What matters is if I can show you or tell you what's happening and then intuitively you say that person's right. Okay, this this sounds good. This feels this feels good. Okay. Well, that's where trust comes in. And when someone has trust, they're going to allow themselves to heal. Dr. Nick (23:06) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (23:07) When somebody's nervous and scared, they don't know what's going on, and you're not giving them a good answer, or you've worked with them and things aren't working, you just sit shrugging your shoulders and say it must be in your head, as opposed to stepping back all the time and reevaluating, you know, and they see you doing the work, you know, they don't sit there and say, he's stupid. No, they say Wow, or if I bring something to a group that I'm in, saying, Listen, I'm gonna talk to my friends about this. They don't sit there and say, You must be dumb. They sit there what he cares enough to bring this to his friends to see what's going on. They don't get charged for that. It's just that, you know, I bring it to a you know, a think tank, if you will. Okay. Dr. Nick (23:42) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (23:43) When I when I get stuck, well, guess what? They'll sit there and say, Okay, he's the guy we wanna follow. And that's not that you could be an ego thing for somebody, but if it's if it's not an ego thing, you sit there and say, Okay, if they trust you a lot of times They will simply calm and allow. Why is this true? And this is another 45 seconds. In 2013, Dr. Dr. Robert Navio, MD PhD, wrote a paper on something called a cell danger response. What he did is scientifically quantify everything that injures a cell, and they're divided into toxins, as you might expect, okay? Microbes, viruses, parasites, and so forth. And on a scientific basis, all the psychological, emotional, and spiritual traumas that you experience will injure the cell in equal measure as microbes and toxins. Okay. So believe it or not, you can have just a PTSD, you can have be a victim of a rape or long term abuse over time. That's gonna injure your cells just as much as if you get chronic Lyme disease, if you get, you know, If you get exposed to a you know, i i to a toxin. It may take longer, but the but a com Yep. Exactly. All all these stressors. Dr. Nick (24:56) Well, I mean relationship stress, financial stress, the the neuroimmune system, it's it's all danger. Dr Jess Armine (25:05) Yeah, it all is. Now the whole thing about cell danger response is if in the acute condition, it will shut down the cells essentially to kill whatever's attacking it. But then we have these systems that will restart it. So when you have an acute problem like strep throat, you get strep throat, you feel terrible, your doctor gives you some antibiotics, you start feeling a little bit better, but then there's the day where you turn the corner and get better rapidly. That's when the acute cell danger response resolves. You go back up to that. high-level mitochondrial function. When it's chronic, which means you have either multiple inputs or the same input multiple times over time, that cellular dysfunction tends to remain. And that includes not, you know, holding on to heavy metals. I mean, these nuances of it are important, but for the concept, you start dropping your immune function because your mitochondrial function overall is dropping. That opens you up to other things. Okay, and you start getting progressively sick. Well, then you start expressing differently. You start getting chronic inflammation, and that's where things like autoimmune problems come from. And most of the illnesses, if you look up chronic inflammation, what it does, most of the illnesses we face on a chronic basis are caused by chronic inflammation slash oxidative stress, which origin is the cell danger response. And if you know what caused it, you know what's injuring the cells. So if you can take care of what's causing it and heal the cells. You'll take care of all the downstream effects. Dr. Nick (26:36) So if one listens to this and they're like, crap, I probably got a lot of work to do. We're gonna start out with the simple version of, you know, thinking about terrain theory, thinking about, you know, cellular dysfunction, detoxing that intracellular and even part of the extracellular matrix. What would be some simple action steps that people listening can actually start taking to make a big difference? Dr Jess Armine (27:07) Here's what I've found that actually works very well. it's been my experience that your the way your biochem way your genes work, biochemistry, is you convert things using enzymes, okay, in these pathways. Okay, they take one thing, turn it into another, either so that the body can excrete it or use it. Those enzymes need cofactors, which are vitamins and minerals. Most people, well, we live in a mineral deficient society and and the more processed our foods are, the less you're gonna get anything else. So the thing that I have found that that makes the biggest difference in most people is the use of a good multivitamin, multi-mineral. Here's where the problem is. Wha what kind? So generally speaking, look for the word liposomal, L-I-P-O-S-O-M-A-L. Why? Because those are encased in a little fat thingy, okay, that gets directly into the cells. And I have found the biggest changes when I put somebody on liposomal vitamins, which you can get very easily almost anywhere in the world. Just type in liposomal multivitamin, you're gonna see it. And there's not as expensive as it used to be because now multiple people are doing it, making it. And I I know the scientists actually created the process to turn the liquid liposomal liposomal vitamins into a powder that actually works. What's gonna happen is it'll get right through this right through the mucous membranes into the cells. What's the difference? Well, when you take a regular multivitamin, okay, it gets into the stomach, then it's got a breakdown, it's got to get absorbed, go through the liver a couple of times, get released in circulation, then find its way to the cells. A lot of choke points there. Plus, when you take a medication, those companies are forced to do bioavailability studies. So you know when you take that tablet, it's getting in. Supplement companies aren't under the same constraints. All Dr. Nick (28:59) Not so much. Dr Jess Armine (29:00) right? So they can make a first of all, it's the type of ingredients. So they can say, hey, we have X amount of iron, and they could be scraping rust in there and and they wouldn't be lying. That's an extreme example. Okay? But not only the forms of the vitamins, but for tablets, the bunches and and whatever, to the point that you can't really absorb it unless you even if you have a perfect circulation, perfect perfect gastrointestinal function. Okay? And the forms of the vitamins. Women are being told they need calcium, which we do, okay, but they're being given calcium carbonate. That's the majority of what you take. Well, calcium carbonate when it hits the hydrochloric acid in your stomach, becomes the bicarbonate ion toolase acid, and calcium chloride, which is a rock. It's limestone. So guess what? It's creates a nice strong molecule of calcium chloride and it drops out. You're not getting ionic calcium that needs to be absorbed. You're not getting calcium from that. You may get a little bit, of course, but not as much as if you used a different type of calcium. Okay. And this is where it gets a little nutty. If you use liposomal vitamins, you don't have to worry about all that. It's gonna get into your cells. So then your biochemistry is gonna work a bit a bit better. Okay. And you might start feeling better. Very simple. That's the s that's the main thing. Myself, go ahead. Dr. Nick (30:22) And and I think you I mean you talked a lot about the vitamins, but it just as important is the liposomal minerals. I mean, your body is a battery. Talk about the the cells Dr Jess Armine (30:30) Absolutely. Exactly. Dr. Nick (30:33) and the mitochondria, its power, it's its charge. Dr Jess Armine (30:36) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (30:37) And minerals is the foundation of allowing that charge to actually be expressed and transferred. Dr Jess Armine (30:42) Another big consideration of that is minerals are also buffers. Our bodies are you are supposed to work in a very short range of acid and base, okay, your pH. And we tend to get more on the acidic side. The reason that everybody s talks about alkaline, you have to be alkaline, you have to be this thing. The reason that is true is because your entire energy system depends on the pH. So an example of when you break down glucose goes into the single Krebs cycle and then goes into mitochondria. The results of the glucose really don't get into the next cycle if you're acidic. It slows it down really bad. Okay, one of the major reasons your mitochondria doesn't work is it have what doesn't have what it needs to work, okay? So minerals tend to be buffers. The the biggest difficulty, people, is trying to do this thing piecemeal. Okay? If you try and take sodium bicarbonate, that's not gonna give you much going on, okay. If you're taking a good multivitamin, multi mineral liposomal, which I usually, as you said, I usually prescribe extra liposomal minerals. Okay, you're not only gonna get your biochemistry working, but you're gonna start balancing your pH 'cause anybody who's ill has got a more acidic pH. You know, on live blood cell analysis, you can see it by the clumping of the cells and so forth. Dr. Nick (32:04) And minerals also act as binders too. So I mean, you're getting Dr Jess Armine (32:07) Abstontively. Dr. Nick (32:08) you're getting tons of benefits from minerals. So those were those Dr Jess Armine (32:10) Yeah, minerals a minerals are a thing. Definitely a thing. Dr. Nick (32:13) those were two amazing simple recommendations. And they're honestly the the two simple recommendations that I always say that and purified water, whether it's distilled Dr Jess Armine (32:25) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (32:26) or reverse osmosis, because most of you know, talk about toxicity and everything else is our water is crap and Our bodies mainly water. But Dr Jess Armine (32:34) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (32:35) let's get into a little more complex. So, what would be some complex advice you'd want to give to the listeners? Dr Jess Armine (32:44) I'm known for the words leaky gut syndrome. Okay. I was treating leaky gut before it was leaky gut. What is leaky gut? That's when the barrier between what's inside your gut, which is open to the environment, and your immune system, which is below that barrier, okay, is opened up, okay, for lots of reasons. all the things we're talking about in cell danger response are the things that can cause that. When that happens You start getting increasing inflammation because those antigens that get in interact with your immune system and result in inflammation. And the more it happens, the worse it gets. So my pr my philosophy says treat leaky gut all the time. The argument I get is, well, what testing are you using and so forth? Well, anybody with a chronic illness, I'm just gonna go ahead and treat them. Why? Because the treatment for leaky gut, which is giving you some fiber to create mucous layer. Maybe some butyrate or glutamine to help the cells, you know, start regenerating themselves, some maybe some zinc to help the cells you know, bind together, and then considering, you know, a certain probiotic or whatever the person needs. If I treat leaky gut and it is not there with what I just said, am I hurting you? Very benign, right? If I don't treat leaky gut and it's there, am I hurting you? Absolutely. Because then I'm not taking care of the main main reason for that chronic inflammation. Another reason why, even with integrated practitioners, somebody's not healing, if they're not paying attention to that, with all the parameters, recreating the mucus later, helping the cells re reestablish themselves, along with maybe some dietary changes or, you know, considering food allergies, but those are the basic reasons, okay. You're not helping that person because as that inflammation continues, you're simply not gonna get better. Simply not gonna get better. So how do you do this? Well, you need prebiotics or or fiber. Okay, and there's different kinds of fiber you can use. That KCF fiber, slippery elm, there's a whole mess of them. What do they do? They they when they get into your system they break down the mucus very quickly. And that's the first layer of defense. there's different substances you can use to help the cells heal. A lot of people use glutamine. Okay. and glutamine, the only thing you have to be careful about there is that if you start taking it and you start getting nervous, it's because glutamine creates glutamate, which is very excitatory. And there's an enzyme that breaks it down into GABA, which is what you do use to calm down. And if that enzyme's not working very well, you can get this buildup of glutamate. So you just simply stop. I tend to use butyrate. butyrate is the Result of short shaking fatty acids being metabolized. Okay. Hmm. Anyway, there's lots of butyrate products, but tributerin is the best one because basically what it does is it allows your entire system, it kind of deposits everything throughout the entire GI tract. And if you're looking at probiotics, there's there's a ton of them out there. Just look for something that's Dr. Nick (35:52) There's a few. Dr Jess Armine (35:53) either a that's an electobacillus and bifidobacteria balance. Okay. And if and what I have found work 'cause works well with my patients is a spore based. and it doesn't have to be super expensive. It's the type, it tends to root better. So recreating a mucus layer, giving something for the cells to adhere themselves, also maybe some zincarnosine to help the the junctions get really, really tight, okay? So nothing can get in. And some probiotics. And believe it or not, that's simple, simple program. starts to correct things. Okay. That's the the next level of hate. If we start dropping inflammation, it can only be a good thing. Now your body's not using so much energy to fight the oxidative stress. Okay. I've seen some really interesting examples of this. I I had I was in Poland treating treating autistic kids and I had consulted with a family about a month prior to me being there and I and of course I was you know I saw them while I was there. And I had a translator because I don't speak Polish. And the mother was sitting there shaking, looking at me. I said, What's wrong with her? The translator says she's she's frightened. I said, About what? Well, she didn't follow your instructions exactly. And I said, Yeah. She thinks you're gonna yell at her, like, Okay, what happened? Well, I was telling her how to use slippery elm, which is one of those fibers, right? And she misread, misunderstood my instructions. And instead of putting the slippery elm in a in a cup of warm water, mixing it up and then feeding it to her son by spoonfuls. She kept increasing it from a teaspoon to a tablespoon to a soup spoon. And I said, How'd you get him to take it? Squeezed Dr. Nick (37:36) Yeah. Dr Jess Armine (37:37) his organic applesauce in it. And I started looking like this. And she said, and then she really started shaking because I'm like this, right? And I said, Where's the kid? He comes in and he's like almost normal. I was like And I said, Tell her thank you. She said, What? I said, tell her, thank you. You know, they both went, tilt, you know. I said, What you did was, and you just taught me something, and I always learn from my patients, that you did a massive amount of of fiber, increased the the mucus layer significantly, those antigens weren't getting in, and his brain inflammation dropped significantly. You know, and now instead of being a whirling dervish, he was a little boy. Did that cure him completely? No. But boy, did I learn something about leaky gut, you know? And so did she. And I was like, Dr. Nick (38:19) Yep. It's that gut brain access is real. Dr Jess Armine (38:22) Thank you, I'm gonna add that in. Yeah. I did a lecture on gut brain axis and his relationship to neurodiversity in in Ireland this last September and learned a lot there too from the other practitioners that the microbiome in the gut is the main thing that signals the brain. And so when you have a normal microbiome, that creates normal brain signaling, normal neurotransmitters, and also down to the hormones. So that's how you establish homeostasis, that when you start getting aberrations in the microbiome from illness and so forth, the signaling, just like a Morse code going back and forth, changes and then the brain function changes. I found that fascinating. Mm. Dr. Nick (39:05) Yep, I mean ninety, ninety five percent of serotonin's, you know, initially made in the stomach. So Dr Jess Armine (39:11) Absolutely. Absolutely. Which is why SSRIs Dr. Nick (39:13) And then there's the whole Vegas nerve conversation and Dr Jess Armine (39:16) are doomed to fail. Dr. Nick (39:17) Yeah, yeah. No, it's I mean, they're not doomed. They're just failing. They're not doomed to fail. They are just failing. Dr Jess Armine (39:20) Another s another subject. Dr. Nick (39:26) So I've Dr Jess Armine (39:26) Well yeah, because they they they preser Dr. Nick (39:29) go ahead, go ahead. Dr Jess Armine (39:31) No, they preserve the serotonin in the in the synapse but do nothing for the production of serotonin. That's what the medicines don't do anything for Dr. Nick (39:36) Yep. Yeah, it's just a dependency. Dr Jess Armine (39:39) the production of serotonin. Yeah. Dr. Nick (39:42) So I have two more questions as we're starting to wrap up. The first one was, you know, we talked about a lot of the terrain. We got a little more complex into the terrain. There's a lot of people, you know, chasing what's what's new on social media, and there's parasite cleanses and then there's fungus invasions and all these things. And, you know, Dr Jess Armine (40:05) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (40:06) people might feel a little better for a little bit of time, but as you talked about. Foundationally, they're not healed. Dr Jess Armine (40:15) Yeah. Dr. Nick (40:16) One thing that I think most people in the world have forgotten about is that all this is not new. We're treating health Dr Jess Armine (40:28) Sure. Dr. Nick (40:29) and healthcare as it's this new thing, but humans have been around for just a couple years. And you just released a book that talked Dr Jess Armine (40:38) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (40:38) about traditional remedies. And I don't think most people Dr Jess Armine (40:42) Exactly. Dr. Nick (40:44) know much about traditional remedies. So can you talk about traditional remedies and why they're so powerful? Dr Jess Armine (40:50) Sure. Well, like you said, we've been around for a while, okay, and most of our grandmothers, great-grandmothers, so forth and so on, you know, learn things that worked. Okay. they worked, they learned things that would treat that didn't involve medications. We have been taught to push those away and in this this generation now, they don't even know about it, but in the transitional generations like in the sixties and seventies and fifties, you know, advertising and big pharma started saying, Don't use this, use that. Take excedrin for your daily headaches, presuming that daily headaches are normal, but they're not. Okay, now you're seeing the government start putting out things like, Don't take this vitamin, it's bad for you this way. And they do a little bit at a time, a little bit at a time, you know, and you forget. that there are other ways of treating things, things that have been traditionally worked. And if you have the decision making process of saying, listen, I've got a toothache, it's the middle of the night. Ambosol's not going to do much, but oil of clove will get right in there and start deadening it. But that's not curing it. That's a stopgap measure until you can see the dentist. Okay. If you if you have mastitis from breastfeeding, believe it or not, there are there's a cabbage leaf compress you can make that works. It's in the literature. I mean I found it in the literature, you Dr. Nick (42:19) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (42:19) know, that you can use to decrease the mastitis for i when I say naturally, naturally is not always good. Okay, but it's an alternative. Okay, something you can use. And no side effects. Dr. Nick (42:29) And there's there's usually less there's usually l less side effects. So Dr Jess Armine (42:33) Right. Dr. Nick (42:34) even if you try it and it doesn't get the results, you don't get the other results that you didn't want. Dr Jess Armine (42:37) Right. Exactly. Exactly. My book is called Nana Was Always Right, my grandmother. Nana Was Always Right. It's on Amazon everywhere. Okay. It's Ellen Kindler. The physical book will come out soon, but it has it exactly like that. I have the remedies, I have the scientific evidence. I went and did the research. Okay, so you could actually go back and say, you know, wow. All right. There's about thirty five remedies there then They're all safe and again, just read it, you know, and the the ebook is very inexpensive. Okay. because I wanted it to get out there. I don't wanna, you know, jack up the price. And guess what? You might learn something or use it as a reference. And, you know, like the old remedies are excellent. There's been some good stuff out there. Okay. And we s based a lot of our medicines on old stuff, okay. Dr. Nick (43:29) I all medicines are most of medicines are foundationally just different complexes of Dr Jess Armine (43:35) Yeah. Dr. Nick (43:35) herbs that's been broken down, you know. Dr Jess Armine (43:38) L let me share with your audience that the new and sexy is not necessarily good. Something doesn't have to be complex for you to sit there and say, Okay, this is gonna work. You know, there's a thing called Occam's Razor, which is not a shaving company, it's a philosophical principle that says the simplest explanation is usually the one. Okay. what we are faced with now, especially on Google, by the way, Dr. Google is my nemesis, Dr. Nick (44:08) Mm-hmm. Dr Jess Armine (44:10) is a lot of people who are concentrating on the symptoms and saying, okay, you need this detox or that detox, and they don't take care of the terrain terrain. And there's people who just practice that way. So if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Okay. It isn't necessarily so. It isn't necessarily so. Okay. And because it has a complex name or something that takes care of this special thing. You know, doesn't make it right. Remember as the beginning of genetics, so everybody looks at MTHFR, that particular gene, and they call it some varied names that I won't repeat here. But they treat it like it's an entity. It's not. It's one enzyme. Okay? It's one enzyme. It takes one thing, turns it into another. Okay? I can say the big words, but you won't be impressed. Right? If you don't fix the pathway, if you don't f work on the absorption, it's not gonna work. Because all it does is convert one thing to another. In and of itself, that polymorphism, the SNP, or the lack of function of that enzyme, and there's fifty of by the way, not two that they usually it's fifty of Okay. Doesn't mean you're gonna be sick. But everybody freaks MTHF4 like it's a thing. It's not. It's one point of consideration. Yes, we are. That's the best way to sell anything. Dr. Nick (45:29) We've we've we've taught we've taught to fear a lot of things, which then goes back. Fear is fear is one of the biggest things that can controls Dr Jess Armine (45:36) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (45:37) you, but it also deregulates the that neuroimmune system. So Dr Jess Armine (45:41) Exactly. Dr. Nick (45:43) my last question, this is also one of my favorite questions, is I'm gonna say a quote and I would like to hear what it means to you. Come back to what's true. Dr Jess Armine (46:00) This is for everything. Something is new, you know, noted. But for anything that you're considering, look at the history of it. Look at the the results or you from your friends from what you've read. Okay, and it's sort of like reading all the various holy books out there. They have two concepts that are all the same. One on a on you know, head towards the divine essentially, the first commandment. The second is treat each other nicely. Okay, again, just paraphrasing. They all say that. So that must be a truth. If all the holy books say it in every tradition in different ways, but they're saying the same and the same blessed thing. Okay, it must be truth. So when you're reading, remember that if you go to a website, you're reading testimonials. This person got better in in in 45 minutes. Well, every practice has got a bill curve, you know, the most people get better in here, but there's always the outliers that couple of people like the young lady that I I I spoke about earlier with the hallucinations. Do I get those results all the time? Well, I I wish I could say that. Is she an outlier? Yeah. You know, I mean, it was one of the best cases I ever did. I got others like that. Okay, but guess what? You know, if I were gonna advertise that, that'd be the one you say, you're gonna get those results all the time. No. Okay, just everybody's an individual. Okay, don't go after the sexy. Don't go after the seemingly complex Look at things in a wider sense. So truth is gonna be when you kinda look everywhere, it's kinda saying the same thing, okay? Not because I said it, not because Guru X said it, Guru Y said it, but looking at the general, looking at the bigger picture as I think where you're gonna find truth. Dr. Nick (47:51) I love it. I love it. Well, thank you, Dr. Jess. We will put Dr Jess Armine (47:55) Thank you. Dr. Nick (47:56) all of his websites and his book links in the show notes so that you can find him as well as his remedies and his other books. And I would say to all the listeners, at least start out with liposomal vitamins, liposomal minerals. And if you're intrigued, you can always reach out and get more complex. Thank you again, Dr. Dr Jess Armine (48:19) Mm-hmm. Dr. Nick (48:19) Jess. And have a great day, Dr Jess Armine (48:20) Thank you, Zachinak. Dr. Nick (48:21) everybody.