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melatonin
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Melatonin: The Brain's Master Detoxifier | Webinar
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Everyone thinks melatonin is a sleep hormone. This is a surface-level symptom-fix that ignores its primary role in your body: executing a nightly melatonin brain detox.
What you'll learn
- Melatonin's primary role is not sleep initiation, but as a potent antioxidant and mitochondrial protector.
- It is the key signaling molecule for activating the brain's glymphatic (waste clearance) system during deep sleep.
- Chronic blue light exposure after sunset severely suppresses your natural melatonin production, hindering brain detox.
- Most commercial melatonin supplements are improperly dosed and timed, creating dependency and disrupting natural rhythms.
- Focus on optimizing natural production first through light hygiene before considering strategic, low-dose supplementation.
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- Dr. Nicole Rivera, DC, IFMC — Co-founder, Integrative You · Integrative & Functional Medicine
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Find Your Root Cause NowFull transcript
- [Nick] The information provided is for educational purposes and is not intended to diagnose or treat any conditions. The lifestyle interventions discussed should not be used as a substitute for conventional medical therapy. - Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Integrative Wellness Radio. I'm here with Nick as he's laughing 'cause I said that my cortisol levels are burnt to a crisp as we get into this topic. (laughing) So-- - Trying to find the balance. It's not always easy. (laughing) It's not always easy. - Oh my gosh. So today we are actually talking more about the conversation that we started on our last podcast in relation to melatonin, and melatonin playing such a significant role in how well and efficiently our brain detoxifies. But when it comes to melatonin, it plays many, many roles in the body and the brain. And it also works inversely with cortisol. So a lot of this comes back to our sleep and wake cycles. So the reason why we find this to be really important is because melatonin is known for sleep but it is not well-known as being the master detoxifier for the brain but also one of the ultimate antioxidants of the entire body. So a lot of people, especially that are familiar with this world, they hear about glutathione. And they think glutathione is the best detoxifier of the body, and it is a good detoxifier but melatonin is actually better. - More powerful. - More powerful. - Yeah. - So-- - Not always better at the right time. (laughing) - I will make the disclaimer now as, please listen to the whole podcast because if you take away a couple tidbits and you go, "Ooh, melatonin, great detoxifier." And then you go take high doses of it, you will make yourself quite sick. So really we want you guys to understand more about melatonin, what it does in the body, how it plays a role in detox, but also how it can be leveraged and used in a really positive way, but definitely under the supervision of a physician because there is many things that need to be considered when using it. - There's a always a right time and a wrong time for melatonin. - A hundred percent. So, first and foremost, just kind of getting into the cycles of melatonin, and I'm gonna allow Nick to kinda take it a step further but when we are talking about how melatonin and cortisol work, so cortisol is classified as a stress hormone, but the thing is, is that yes, it can be overproduced in the event that you're stressed or dealing with a lot of things emotionally but cortisol is actually quite high in the morning and it's high to wake you up and to make you alert when you're starting your day. And as your day goes on and obviously the light changes, your cortisol starts to decline and your melatonin starts to go up. And your melatonin will peak in the evening time in order to get you tired enough to get to bed. So that's the normal (laughing) way that it's supposed to work. Obviously, there are many, many people struggling with insomnia and sleep issues, which is really showing us that these pathways can be compromised. So, I'll let you talk a little bit more about what you mentioned the last podcast just in relation to light devices and whatnot. - So, yeah there's, like you said, there's many things that affect the imbalance of cortisol and melatonin. One of that just being the stress on what we call HPA access, which is pretty much the connection between your brain to your adrenals 'cause your adrenals that make your cortisol. So, if that connection is overly taxed or there's miscommunication between that process, then that's gonna throw the imbalance of cortisol, which is gonna throw the imbalance of melatonin. Maybe we'll get a little deeper into that later in the podcast. But for the most part, we want to, first things first, focus on just making sure that your brain can produce the proper amount of melatonin and help you get to sleep and help the brain detox. So, there's a couple awesome hacks you can do. We talked about, first and foremost, in that last podcast, complete darkness. Darkness is gonna be the biggest thing. - When you're going to sleep. - When you're going to sleep, even before because you don't have to be in complete darkness before but what they found is, a lot of times through, whether it's being on a computer, an iPad, t.v., it's really out of those things, part of the spectrum of blue light, which is really the strongest negative aspect affecting the pineal gland, 'cause in that, it's really, it shuts down that production of melatonin altogether. - So, if somebody has blue light blocking glasses? - That's better. It's still not the best because any time that you are going through, you're stimulating the brain differently with artificial light than natural light, so it's gonna be less stress on the pineal gland but you're still gonna be stressing the brain and the pineal gland when you're having those non, what do I want to say, more synthetic light coming into the brain through the eyes. - So, speaking of that, I'm actually curious on your thoughts with fluorescent, people that work in fluorescent lights all day. - It's the worst. (laughing) There's actually a lot more research coming out. I mean, there's, they call 'em full spectrum lights. It's really a false advertisement 'cause there's really no lights that are full spectrum but they do give some of the benefits of each spectrum so the ROYGBIV, red, orange, yellow, blue, indigo, violet. So, there's lights out there that will give each property in those wave lengths but not the not the entire spectrum of light. But when you look why that is beneficial because each spectrum of light, gettin' on a tangent here, but each spectrum of light affects the body differently and it affects different components of the body differently as well. Especially when you look at the energetic aspect of the body. - So, you're saying the full spectrum lights would be beneficial? - Yep. - Oh, okay. - Some, yeah. - And these are the things that people can, see, this is what's funny, we're married and this is how different our brains are, but-- - No, you can go, they sell them on Amazon and you can replace pretty much the majority of lights. - Okay. So, when someone is in, say, the fluorescent lights because it's their job and their kind of bound to that all day, is that-- - During lunch get outside, get some sunshine. - But this is obviously playing a very significant role in elevating the cortisol and then elevating that to the point that they're probably not going to produce the melatonin efficiently when they're supposed to be going to bed. - Yes. And that's like, if you can get outside, that is gonna help because it's gonna break that up and you're gonna be getting the true full spectrum from the sun. Also, one of the best things you can do with that is actually grounding. So, if you can be barefoot on the ground. Grass is best. Well, grass is second best. The ocean is literally the best. But with that, that's gonna give you that connection to the earth. Why that's so important is the earth resonates at Schumann resonance, it's called 7.8 hertz. And that will also help kind of reset that whole access as well. And there is some studies, they're doing more research now, but that it's actually creating, it's increasing the health of the red blood cells, more oxygenation, more hemoglobin, which is pretty cool as well. So grounding can be an awesome reset and it's free. I love free, cheap things. (laughing) So, little side tangent with all the light aspect but any light does, I mean it's going to pretty much stop that-- - Artificial light. - Artificial light is gonna stop that melatonin production. So, while you're sleeping, set your bedroom as like a little sanctuary where you don't have any lights, no night lights, nothing, complete darkness. If you need it, get blackout curtains. Definitely do that and it's gonna be definitely worth the extra little cost. - Well it's just, as you're even talking, it's just like thinking about the reality, or I would say the reality for most people is that most people are working in corporate buildings and they're working in offices with artificial light. They're working on computers and other types of devices. Some people are so busy through their day that they're not even getting outside. They're barely eating a real meal. And then they're getting home and they're so mentally fried that they're probably having a glass of wine and then they're trying to kind of numb themselves by putting on t.v. so they can forget about their day, let alone if they got a crappy email or ran into some type of situation through that day. - So, if it was one glass of wine and it was French, Italian, somewhere that's, (laughing) that's actually beneficial because one glass will actually create vasodilation, so more blood flow and nutrients to the brain. Two glasses or more, the opposite, constriction happens. So, that's actually not a bad thing. And it also energetically will ramp up the liver. So, it will actually help the liver produce, or function better at that. Side tidbit, so if you are one of those workers that you can't-- - So you just confused people because, so let me clarify for Nick. So when you have a glass of wine and it has the vasodilation, but what he's talking about with the liver, is I know everybody hears about alcohol and they think, obviously alcohol is negative for your liver, but when you have that glass of wine and it kinda calms down that fight or flight, or sympathetic stress response, you can actually mobilize negative energy out of the liver 'cause your liver actually tends to hold on to anger, resentment. So, if you had a bad day and you're grabbing for that glass of wine, sometimes it's an intuitive thing for your body to help you. - (whispers) Only one. - Only one. (laughing) - But I wanted to jump back to that corporate job or if you're inside underneath artificial lights, you're not getting, one of the best things that you can do, a little hack is, whether it's a tennis ball, something, have that underneath your desk, take your shoes off and then roll that around. So, underneath, let's say this is your foot, if you're listening to this I guess I'll try to paint a good picture but underneath your foot on the, pretty much like the highest aspect of your arch is the meridian for your kidney, your K1. So with that, your adrenals sit on top of the kidneys. Kidneys in Chinese medicine is like your life force. So, one of the things you can do is just rub your foot on that ball to stimulate that meridian point. It's going to be like acupressure. Acupuncture is when they're using needles. Acupressure is when you're just applying pressure to it to stimulate the meridian point. But that's gonna signal more energy flow all the way up through the entire meridian to the kidneys to help support that even though you can't be outside and you can't have that grounding all day long. - Yeah, well I think it's important to note too is that when we're talking about melatonin production, it works top down and, it works top down and bottom up. So, a lot of what we're talking about right now is if your cortisol is really elevated and that can be because of stress, it can be because of burnout. It's because you're under these artificial lights all day. That can definitely play a significant role in the lack of melatonin. But then at the same time, your melatonin being produced, so actually, I should take this a step back because your melatonin is produced in your pineal gland, but your serotonin actually converts into your melatonin. So, having lack of serotonin, especially because you have a lot of gastrointestinal issues can be a huge part of why you don't have adequate amounts of melatonin. Secondary to that is that if your pineal gland is extremely stressed because of toxicity, which we're gonna elaborate on, that can also play a role in your melatonin production. So, a lot of people don't always know that serotonin converts into melatonin but that's one of the reasons why the supplement 5-HTP is geared towards sleep problems because 5-HTP converts into serotonin and then that is hopefully going to convert into melatonin. So, with that being said is a huge portion of your serotonin is actually made in your gastrointestinal system. So, an unmanaged gut issue can very much be an unmanaged brain issue and sleep issue. So that a hundred percent needs to be evaluated. But if you have a sleep problem, a lot of times you're going to a neurologist, if you have a gut problem, you're going to a gastroenterologist and nobody is talking to each other or necessarily piecing the puzzle together. And that-- - And sometimes they're both a problem you know. - Exactly. - So, it's like you'll fix one and, "Well I still didn't get better," blah, blah, blah and then you give up. But it's like-- - Well, I think it's unfortunate how many people are on sleeping pills as well as on antidepressants when it really, it is an unmanaged gut issue. - Yeah. - So sometimes-- - I'd say both 'cause pretty much everybody's pineal gland's not doing well. - Well, and that's the next point is, what is going to affect the pineal gland, which again is part of the brain, what would potentially be causing the limitation with how melatonin is being produced? And there is a lot of components that can create stress on the pineal gland, and that goes back to almost the last podcast that we did. Is your pineal gland getting proper oxygenation because of blood flow? So many people that are struggling with headaches and migraines, it's because they have abnormal blood flow in and out of their head. So, that can definitely cause a problem of how much oxygen the pineal gland is getting, which can be a problem for your melatonin. But if you want to talk about a stress from a toxicity, one of the biggest known stressors is actually fluoride, as being negatively impacting the pineal gland. - Yeah, well actually calcifying the pineal gland. - Yeah, so calcify means calcium is being laid down and it's actually becoming hard. - Yep. - So, when you're thinking about fluoride, I think a lot of people know fluoride is in the water and if anything, it's advocated for it to be in the water because it builds strong teeth. - Which is a lie. (laughing) If you look at all the research, there is some science showing that topically there's some benefits. There's also a lot of science showing that topically there is no benefits. But pretty much all the science shows that there is no benefits taking it orally. - Orally, yeah. - And there's a lot of, all the science pretty much says that it's a neurotoxin. So if you take it orally, it's gonna get into your nervous system and the unfortunately it's your pineal gland has the biggest magnet for fluoride. - Well, and too, it's like with the amount of fluoride we're all exposed to, it's more than we would ever need for strong teeth. And I said this in the last podcast as well but one of the things that I literally learned three weeks ago is that all of the white dental fillings that go into cavities, I shouldn't say all, but if you're going to a traditional dentist that is not classified as a holistic or biological dentist, those fillings are actually time releasing fluoride throughout the amount of time they are in your mouth. So, you're having a time-released fluoride from your fillings, then you're also getting your fluoride treatments with your cleanings, and then in addition to that it's in the water. It's also in many vitamins and other types of beverages, like Pellegrino as an example, has fluoride in it. - Well some, I mean there is a difference between, not that there is, it's structured differently, but there is natural fluoride and then there's synthetic man-made fluoride. - Yes. - They're both not the best for you but definitely the synthetic is processed a lot stronger. - Yeah, so the fluoride exposure is definitely, we're all being exposed to it. And if you have lived in an area where there is a high amount in the water or if you've been given, especially as a child, if you actually grew up in an area that didn't have the fluorinated water, then chances are you were given fluoride drops or you were given fluorinated vitamins. So, that is actually even more potent that what is available in the water. So, these are all things that play a very significant role in the melatonin production. So, depending on what the issue is, obviously you have to consider all of your environmental factors like Dr. Nick mentioned is, are you going to bed with a device in front of your face watching t.v., etc? Are you constantly under artificial light? Do you even have artificial light in your bedroom? And then what's going on that could be affecting your neurological system and what can you do to actually improve it? - Do you want me to talk about that? - You go for it, my friend. - Well I mean honestly when you look at the nervous system and the brain, everything is processed through it. So, it's like are you walking around? Are you physical? That's the best nutrient for your brain is movement. That's my favorite way to hack the brain neurologically is through specific body movements to activate different parts of the brain. Even different eye movements is gonna activate different parts of the brain. So, I love moving. Moving's one of the best things you can do. Then you're looking at the other things that we talked about. Chemical, that's gonna stress the brain. Emotional, if you're a very highly emotional, highly reactional, highly judging person, that's gonna create a lot of over stimulation throughout the limbic system, which is literally the pineal glands-- - It's the neighbor. - Right, right in the middle of it all. It's pretty much, yeah, it's dead smack in the middle because on both sides, well going into anatomy right now. But it's gonna be affected by that but also not just through the brain but it's like all those emotions, we talk about adrenal burnout. And if you're just on stress all the time, that will go through and increase the cortisol, which is gonna lower your melatonin. So making sure that you have a balanced perception, balanced emotion, you're not too high, you're not too low, that you're just seeing, you're having a good conscience awareness of what's really happening around you. And then energetically, there's tons of meridians that go over the head and enervate different areas. And then when you look at even deeper, the different chakras. So you have your sixth and seventh chakra right there. And your six is literally dead on to the pineal gland. And then your seventh, your crown going up. So, it's like those are two major important areas energetically that you want to make sure, it's like a lot of times you'll be doing all this neurological work but then you'll plateau and what we've, what I've found working on people is a lot of times it's what they haven't evaluated for and what they've never had any treatment for, which is their energetic systems. - And I think that's a big thing is some of you listening might be like, "Ah that's super weird and woo-woo," but I found for myself I've always been super analytical and I was always about blood work and labs and I had my own personal experience with hitting a major plateau and found out that a big part of my issue was energetic and emotional. And mine all stemmed from my liver but when you're coming back to the pineal gland and the chakra associated with it, I find that with a lot of my patients, that can be blocked in the event, 'cause this is classified as your third eye, is what do they not wanna see. And there's a lot of things that we go through in our lives and if you are maybe in a bad relationship or you know that your spouse cheated on you or certain things you can-- - Or you wake up everyday and you hate going to work. - Yeah, you can easily block that chakra because your almost like, "I just need to power through. "I just need to keep going. "This is my reality right now. "It's not time. "I can't leaven him," or "I can't do this," or "I can't leave the job. "I need the security." - And that's increased stress, which goes down and affects the adrenals, which affects the cortisol. - Yeah, so I think it's just that system is, it's a system. There is energy channels in our body, the same as there is blood flow and everything else, so it's very important that that is considered when-- - And it's been around just about 2,000 plus years. - Yeah. - So, I think it's a-- - Well, and even in this holistic medicine world all, we talk about how traditional medicine and conventional medicine is so segregated, your cardiologist, gastroenterologist, neurologist, but the same thing is really happening in the world of holistic medicine as well. You have your acupuncturist, which is dealing with those energy systems, and then you have your functional medicine doctors, and then you have your massage therapists, and your personal trainers and everything else. So, we have just found that we hit plateaus (clears throat) excuse me, with our patients over time and that's what kept us learning and putting everything under one roof essentially. So, it's definitely been an amazing evolution to understand all those pieces and be able to help people in a really significant way. But one of the things I do want to say, going back to the melatonin, is that many people take melatonin. And there's some people that take it and they do well. They're like, "Oh it helped me sleep. "It's like the best thing ever." And then there's other people that take it and it makes them feel bad. It keeps them awake. It gives them bad dreams. So, would you like to elaborate further? - I would love to. I'm just-- - So let's start with-- - I'm trying to find out, yeah, where to start with that. I'd say with starting, if you take it and you have that negative reaction, you have two choices. You can a, power through it or don't. Because if you do have that, it's because your brain's detoxing. So, you're having a reaction to your brain actually going through that detox process and really the reaction is that it's not detoxing properly. And when it's not detoxing properly, that creates more inflammation and then you're gonna have either really bad sleep, no sleep, or some really crazy dreams 'cause it's messing with all that inflammation. - Well like you said before, talk about balance. So back in the day, I guess it's almost 10 years ago now, when we first started practicing, which we obviously didn't know then what we know now, do you remember how we would, so we would drive home but we had one car, so we drove together, and we only drove maybe 15 minutes to get home and I would get into the car and pass out so hard that I would be dreaming and Nick would have to shake me to wake me up. - Sometimes I would mess with her and I would just go in the house (laughing) and leave her in the car. (laughing) - But I'm telling this story because I thought that was normal. I thought it was great. I was like, "I'm a great sleeper. "I can sleep anywhere." And then I ended up doing neurological testing and I did a neurotransmitter test, which tested melatonin. And I remember my melatonin was through the roof. I remember being confused about it and I was like, "What does this mean? "This is really bizarre." And I was like, "Well clearly this "is why I'm sleeping the way that I am "and maybe having a low-grade narcolepsy essentially." (laughing) And then later down the line learning so much about the neurological system, what I realized is my body naturally was amping up my melatonin production in order to try to detox my neurological system. And it was because other testing that I did actually revealed I had very, very significant mercury toxicity. So that, obviously it's very difficult to test is it actually in my brain or affecting my brain but it clearly was. So my body being smart, intuitively was like, "Let's raise the melatonin "to try to detox her neurological system," but then obviously was creating this side effect of being able to sleep anywhere and to kind of fall in that deep sleep, which I clearly thought was a great thing. And then when my body started to get better and correct, I was like, "Oh so I guess that wasn't really that normal." (laughing) - Not so much. - Yeah. So it's definitely interesting across the board of what it looks like when your brain is dealing with toxicity and how the melatonin can affect you. So, for Nick and I, we have actually embarked-- - Can I talk some more about the orally first? - Yeah, yeah go ahead. - Okay cool. So, when you're taking it, so if you don't get a bad reaction and it actually helps you sleep, a, awesome, it's gonna help you sleep but you don't want to be dependent on it. 'Cause any time you do take something for a long time it weakens the actual structure in the system to do it itself. So melatonin is not something you want to do a long time at all. And what I found clinically getting better results is actually almost like micro-dosing with it. 'Cause you're really just, you're giving the body a little taste and saying, "Hey, here I am, produce more." So, it's actually you're giving the body a good, a little bit of support but also a little bit of a challenge to naturally produce more melatonin itself. - Wouldn't you say this micro-dosing concept though is better for a person who maybe they suffered with a pretty significant gastrointestinal issue, which compromised their serotonin and maybe they've worked on their gut and now they're trying to correct their melatonin, the micro-dosing would be good? - Yeah, if they've corrected it because most, honest to God, most people that take it, it's barely gonna get to their brain because their stomach's not functioning properly. - Yeah because when it comes to the other side of it, if you're resonating with the symptoms of brain toxicity, that's kind of a completely different ballgame of how to work with the system. - Right. And then I mean, and then literally orally is probably my least favorite way of taking melatonin anyways. There's just a lot more intelligent ways to take it so it affects the body, it's struggling for how much I want to say on the podcast 'cause I don't want somebody to just run out and Google and purchase things and then have really bad side effects. But just looking at the science of the body, the two best ways to actually take melatonin is transdermal, so you're putting it on your skin, letting it soak in, or rectally, so doing it as a suppository. So, I would, unless you've done your due diligence and you've done a lot of work and you're working with somebody who knows what they're doing, absolutely do not do a suppository 'cause that's really strong and really powerful because it goes in and it goes right to your, it doesn't have to go through the stomach, it doesn't have to be digested, it's gonna go right in your bloodstream. - Yeah. - And it's really strong and it can create a lot of problems if you're not doing all the other detoxing benefits with it. You literally have to support every system or you're not gonna be a happy camper. - Well that was the conversation that we had as we've gone through our own personal melatonin detox and we said, we had definitely some side effects but we said we really can't recommend this to people that have not done any type of work on themselves in the past because-- - It's not where you want to start. - Yeah, we've been on a health journey for eight, nine years now and we still had to be really, really strategic for ourselves because when we started with the transdermal high dose melatonin and that created some really interesting symptoms. It was almost like an emotional detox for myself at least but the first time that I did the melatonin suppository, you, if you remember, I didn't sleep for, I don't even think I slept at all that night. I felt like I drank 75 cups of coffee and it was like a serious general nervous system detox. And then Nick just looks at me and he's like, "Your nervous system sucks." (laughing) - Good morning. - I'm like, "Thank you. "Thank you for that." (laughing) So, considering how much work I've done on myself, infrared saunas, foot baths, supplements, detoxes, etc., this was still creating definitely at least some side effects in my system. Obviously the benefits are huge once you get passed the difficult part but the point of this podcast is to have you guys really understand if you have been a person struggling with your sleep and you've been struggling with burnout and you've really, you started to take melatonin, now it stopped working and you've been on Ambien and you've been on all of these different protocols to correct your sleep, this is something to bring to your awareness that you could be dealing with a massive melatonin issue because of toxicity in the brain. And there are amazing protocols out there but you definitely need to work with a physician in order to make sure you're doing it correctly because when we're talking about high-dose melatonin, you know, melatonin many people take it orally as a milligram, two milligrams, three at max. We're talking 200 to 400 milligrams. It is a completely different ballgame when we're doing that level. So this is definitely something that has extreme benefit but you might need to support your gut going through the process. You might need to do a lymphatic detox going through the process. You might need to be taking other supplements that are complementing the detox. There's a lot of strategy that goes into it. - Yes, lots of strategy. (laughing) - So, for those of you that are really resonating with this podcast and are, you're like, "Wow, this really sounds like me "and I've been struggling with my sleep "for a really long time "and I really feel like I'm scared "for my neurological system, "and I do feel very foggy, "especially being young and I'm nervous "about having more significant neurological decline," hop on a strategy call with our client care team and learn a little bit more about the testing that we do because we always do testing to dictate are you even a candidate for the melatonin detox because everybody starts somewhere and you might not be a candidate for it right away, but you might be able to do other preliminary things to start correcting these pathways as well. - And it's not just, I mean we've both seen awesome results with it and the more severe aspect of neurological disorders too. 'Cause sometimes you gotta bring out the big guns for those to really crush that threshold to be able to kinda get them back in the game, needless to say. So, it can be utilized in so many different ways when done correctly. - A hundred percent. Well, we thank you guys for being with us and we're gonna be hopping on and doing another podcast, and we're still staying on the neurological theme but we're gonna be talking all about migraines and one of the biggest reasons why people have migraines and especially cannot always manage them through traditional medications. So, join us on our next podcast and we'll see you guys soon.
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