Functional Medicine or Dysfunctional Medicine?
Episode 230
In this episode of Integrative You Radio, host Dr. Nicole sits down with Brendan Vermeire, a leading expert in functional medicine and founder of Metabolic Solutions. Together, they explore the complexities of functional medicine, discussing how to effectively use biomarkers and personalized health strategies. Brendan emphasizes the importance of tracking symptoms and utilizing objective data to guide health decisions, while Nicole shares her approach to patient education and the value of a clear, structured healing process. They both highlight the significance of resilience, foundational health principles, and the body's inherent power to heal. This episode offers listeners valuable insights into navigating the functional medicine landscape and underscores the importance of education, empowerment, and personalized care in achieving optimal health. Tune in to learn more! What you’ll learn: Objective Tracking: Emphasize the importance of tracking symptoms and using biomarkers to guide personalized health strategies effectively. Holistic Approach: Highlight the pitfalls of quick-fix solutions and the need for a balanced, comprehensive approach to wellness that includes foundational health principles. Education and Empowerment: Advocate for informed decision-making through education and strong practitioner-client partnerships to navigate the complexities of functional medicine. Quotes: “I classify myself as an investigator and data junkie. I don't like our industry relying on outdated textbooks that don't help the population." - Dr. Nicole "Objectivity is key. Use the right biomarkers to know if a problem is relevant and measure progress effectively."- Brendan Vermeire Curious about Metabolic Solutions? Meet Brendan Vermeire, Chief Scientific Officer and CEO at Metabolic Solutions Institute Creator of The Mental M.A.P™️, FMHP™️ Certificate Program, & NeuroCeuticals™️ Director of Clinical Operations & Clinical Education, Berkeley Life. Links: Website: Metabolic Solution
Topics: medicine, health, functional, education, integrative, unknown, brendan, metabolic
Key takeaways from this episode
- ## Functional Medicine or Dysfunctional Medicine?
- Objective Data is Crucial:** Effectively use biomarkers and symptom tracking to guide personalized health decisions and measure progress.
- Beyond Quick Fixes:** Embrace a holistic approach that prioritizes foundational health, resilience, and the body's innate healing capabilities over short-term solutions.
- Education Empowers:** Understand the importance of practitioner-client partnerships built on education and informed decision-making for navigating complex health journeys.
- Investigate and Innovate:** Move beyond outdated approaches by acting as an investigator, utilizing relevant data to understand and address individual health challenges.
Pull quotes
This is the place where you become limitless. **Unknown:** We are covering the latest and greatest topics, of course, in a disruptive fashion, around integrative medicine, mental health, and human behavior.
We will be sprinkling in some truth bombs for our healthpreneurs so they can join us in our mission to evolve healthcare.
If you are health curious and growth focused, you are in the right place. **Unknown:** But buckle up, because this is real, this is raw, and this is disruptive.
Transcript
**Unknown:** Welcome to Integrative U Radio, hosted by Dr. Nick Carothers and yours truly, Dr. Nicole Rivera. This is the place where you become limitless.
**Unknown:** We are covering the latest and greatest topics, of course, in a disruptive fashion, around integrative medicine, mental health, and human behavior. We are also covering how those topics affect the human and family dynamics. We will be sprinkling in some truth bombs for our healthpreneurs so they can join us in our mission to evolve healthcare. If you are health curious and growth focused, you are in the right place.
**Unknown:** But buckle up, because this is real, this is raw, and this is disruptive. This is Integrative U Radio. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Integrative U Radio.
**Unknown:** I- if you're on video with us, my hat is disappearing with this lovely green screen I got going on, but so, hey, I have a hat on at moments, and then I don't. But we have a lovely guest who is a dear friend of mine, Brendan Vermeire. Did I say it right? You did.
**Unknown:** Okay. Like Oscar Meyer he said. You'll never forget that. I'll never forget it.
**Unknown:** And he runs two different companies, and I'm gonna let him share a little bit more about that, but Metabolic Solutions has actually been such an amazing avenue of education for other practitioners in our functional medicine arena. And we just had this very fantastic little, little passionate conversation prior to getting on this podcast about our industry. And so the theme of this podcast is functional medicine or dysfunctional medicine. So it's gonna be a good one, guys.
**Unknown:** So, you know, buckle up, strap in, get ready. But before we dive into that topic, I want Brendan to tell you a little bit about himself, what he's doing, and then we're just gonna go for it. Sounds good. I appreciate you having me, Nicole.
**Unknown:** It's, it's been too long, and excited to do this show with you, get you on my show, and we, well, I'm sure we'll continue the conversation 'cause might get a little spicy today, and that's something I think we've always kinda bonded over is- ... I, I think we are, are more candid, you know, than I, I think we like, we both like to keep it raw, keep it real, keep it candid. You know, I don't wanna disillusion anybody, that's for sure, and I think there's way too much of that in this space, as I'm sure we'll get into. So just to kinda help everybody understand what I'm all about, like, ultimately I really am just passionate about teaching a, a more functional approach to mental and metabolic health.
**Unknown:** You know, my, my background is very metabolic physiology, biochemistry, fitness, nutrition. That's my origins and, and roots. I think there's a severe lack of that in the functional medicine space, and it's starting to get better. You know, I mean, these days it's like I'm, I'm seeing more, you know, white coat doctors that get up on stage and say, like, "Oh, muscle fixes everything." It's like, okay, that's the, the cutting edge science that's circulating these days.
**Unknown:** Great. Um, and so I, I do. I, I have a few different kinda businesses. I've got the institute where I train practitioners.
**Unknown:** I've got the practice where we work with clients and, you know, put out educational offerings. Then I also have a not-for-profit research and education foundation, and that's really... That's the long term. That's the dream.
**Unknown:** It's really not up and running right now 'cause I don't have any funding. I don't have donors. Mm-hmm. I'm just a bootstrapping entrepreneur that's, that's trying to do some good in, in the world.
**Unknown:** So the foundation, the whole point is we're gonna be providing the public with education, teaching the public how to better optimize your mental metabolic health while also serving those in need while concomitantly doing clinical research. So fortunately I have some commercial partners that I'm doing research with and kind of creating that model, and then I hope to replicate it further through the foundation in time, so still kinda getting the word about, word out about it and getting, uh, operations up and running. I love it. It's, it's interesting what you're saying, you know, the bigger picture, the bigger dream because I personally classify myself as a investigator data junkie.
**Unknown:** You know? Mm-hmm. People will say, "Oh, you're a doctor." I'm like, "But more importantly is I'm literally an investigator, and I'm obsessed with data." I really do not like the aspect of our industry where people are, are, are either using textbook, 'cause unfortunately that is not helping the population at this point, and they're just looking at everyone as the same. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** And they're finding that, quote-unquote, "root cause" which nowadays you'll find, oh, your nervous system is stressed. Oh, everything is in your gut. And I feel like in our industry something new is trending every few months, and everybody wants to get on the bandwagon and talk about it, but we're not... We're confusing people.
**Unknown:** And this was really- Yeah ... the, the highlight of what we were talking about is we're, we're confusing people, and there is such a sea of mixed information and bad information. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
**Unknown:** I mean... And the thing is, like, I, I look at... I just, I try to look at a situation. I, I wanna look at it from all angles, right?
**Unknown:** Because, you know, all too often I think it's just kind of immaturity and, and ir- arrogance and emotional reactivity. Everybody just wants to point the finger, point the finger. Like, you know, consumers, patients, clients, self-healers, people, you know, they wanna point the finger at, "Well, conventional medicine failed me, and then functional medicine failed me, and, and I'm a victim," right? And then, you know, functional medicine practitioners will point the finger the other way.
**Unknown:** And it's like it's a, it's a co-created problem. Yeah. Right? You know, because...
**Unknown:** And I think a lot of it is very much propagated by-The nature of the internet, specifically social media, specifically the algorithm, where it highly encourages content that's gonna be more provocative. There has to be a neurological hook, right? Like, I, you know, if, if you don't grab their fleeting attention instantly with something that's kind of potent, right? So it's gonna, by nature, encourage content creators to use more sensationalized and exaggerated languaging or something...
**Unknown:** You know, you either have to, like, seduce people, piss them off, or enchant them in a, in a millisecond, and that's just to get their attention long enough to maybe, like, read the caption or whatever. But I think there's such a... Too many fads, too much sensationalism, too many absolutes, not enough holding space for duality and nuance, right? And also too, I just think we are way overcomplicating everything, and a lot of times these kind of overcomplications are driven by a lot of stuff that's, like, pretty theoretical.
**Unknown:** Like, I'll, I'll spit out an example because in recent weeks I was refurbishing and updating my, like, methylation and nutrigenomics course, right? And so in this course, I was teaching this as an example of, like, okay, everybody's freaking out about MTHFR these days 'cause it's gotten bigger and hotter because that Joe Rogan podcast. You know, and then it's like, so everybody's focused on this one gene. Mm.
**Unknown:** Now, the, the human genome has, what, 20,000 to 25,000 protein-coding genes, and out of those, you know, 25,000 genes, so far to date, over 88 million single nucleotide polymorphisms have been identified. Mm-hmm. Which basic math would tell you that there's a lot of SNPs for every single gene. And even with MTHFR, the only two SNPs people are looking at are the 677 and 1298 when in reality there's 14 clinically relevant SNPs just for MTHFR.
**Unknown:** Like, we are so far from knowing all the, you know, compensatory interactions and mechanisms. So, you know, your favorite genetic test measures what, like, 200, maybe 300 SNPs out of 88 million. Yeah. You know?
**Unknown:** And then people are getting like, "Well, what supplement? What's the protocol for this- Yeah ... SNP," right? That's the problem.
**Unknown:** And so then I think functional medicine practitioners, even if their intentions are good, I think they propagate the sensationalism, the myopia, the reductionism- Mm-hmm ... overcomplicating, and just kind of pulls people down- Mm-hmm ... this rabbit hole of confused consumerism at the expense of overlooking the foundations of health. I think it's interesting what you're saying because, you know, when it goes back to more of the marketing and the psyche, you know, you hear from marketing companies, "Niche down, niche down, niche down.
**Unknown:** What are you a doctor of?" And obviously, the conventional medicine world has influenced this because you go to a specialist when you have a problem with a certain organ or system. And part of this is programming us to isolate out these different organ systems. And in functional medicine, you go on many profiles on social media, and it's like, this functional medicine doctor deals with hormones. This functional medicine doctor deals with fertility.
**Unknown:** This functional medicine doctor deals with brain inflammation or neurological degeneration. And at the end of the day, great if that's your marketing pitch, but at the end of the day, what are you doing behind the scenes? Because that's not how it works. Everything- Mm-hmm ...
**Unknown:** is integrated, hence the name of my company forever. But everything is working together, and what you're describing with, you know, these SNPs and looking at genetics, I think it's great for people to wanna research and learn about these things. Mm. But what they have to understand is that's what it is.
**Unknown:** Mm. This is not to research enough to define yourself, to label yourself as now having a limitation. "Oh, I have MTHFR. I don't detox well.
**Unknown:** Oh, I have MTHFR, so now I'm gonna have neurological issues at this age." Like, that's not the point. The point is, is to understand more about your body, understand more about the biochemistry, and then also allow that to play a role in the decisions that you make and the environmental factors that you expose yourself to. You know- Mm-hmm ... if you have compromised MTHFR, like, you shouldn't necessarily be consuming certain things dietary-wise.
**Unknown:** There's certain medications that are going to ha- be more problematic from you. Anesthesia might be more problematic for you and, you know, the list goes on. So it's just a piece of data, and that's the thing that bothers me the most is that why are we honing in on one thing, and then this... a person becomes obsessed with this idea, or they now create a lot of limits on themself because of this idea of th- what their physiology is or what their, you know, their situation is.
**Unknown:** And it's just- Mm-hmm ... not how it works. No. Well, and, and I think you, you know, you mentioned data earlier.
**Unknown:** I would say one of the biggest things that I just constantly am preaching, and it, it's the antidote to all this, and it's just objectivity at the end of the day. You know, with, with me, like, on, on my podcast trailer, you know, I talk about how spirituality and spiritual practice is the subjective pursuit of truth. Science is the objective pursuit of truth, and both are equally important to me. You know, certainly I am a very esoteric-minded guy, but I also- Mm ...
**Unknown:** think it's important to keep your feet on the ground of objective reality. And, uh, what... You know, uh, if... There's, there's so many layers to it 'cause there's this whole, like, sociological factor of I think a lot of us are kind of being immobilized of, you know, the Internet is seducing us into kind of this matrix fantasy of experience whatever you want, right?
**Unknown:** Um-And a lot of content on social media feels extremely self-indulgent, if I'm being honest. And so then you mix in the sensationalism or the fear-mongering or the myopia and kind of what we're talking about, but the antidote to all of it is objectivity. Every single day I get tons of comments on, you know, my posts of like, uh, "Well, how do you fix this?" Or like, "How do I know if I have this?" And it's like, y- you test. You get the objective data- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** to know if that's a problem. How do you know if you fixed it? You test again to see if you fixed that individual problem. Like, that's what got me into lab testing in the beginning of my career, was all of my clients were just, like, general, you know, weight loss clients.
**Unknown:** They were just normal American people that wanted to get a little healthier, get a little fitter. But of course, a lot of them, you know, as a, as a client-centered coach using effective psychological coaching language, "Well, how do you wanna measure success along your journey?" Yeah. "Well, I'll just go based on how I feel or how I feel like I look," or... And it's like, no, we need objective parameters that are sensitive and accurate and reproducible for your specific goals, right?
**Unknown:** Because, look, if you're overweight and pre-diabetic, I bet your insulin and HbA1c and lipids and liver enzymes are... and leptin, you know, that's all gonna go down before you see a change on the scale or feel a change in how your clothes are fitting or all these things. So I just... Objectivity i- is the name of all of it, because you just have people chasing root causes, chasing root causes- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** and kinda latching on to these theories and these ideas. You know, I was recently consulting with a practitioner. This kinda... I was caught off guard by how much I got triggered by it.
**Unknown:** Where I was consulting with, you know, this, this young girl struggling with, like, anxiety and fatigue and all these things, and her older sister was kind of a practitioner and very, like, Lyme/mold focused. Yes. And look, I mean, I like to think I know about as much about Lyme and mold as about anybody. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** And, you know, she was kind of putting this idea out there, "Well, I think she has Lyme and mold, and, and I just... I know she does." And it's like- Don't we all? W- we, uh, yeah. I, I don't think it's helpful to be throwing around scary labels whimsically, right?
**Unknown:** I think- Exactly ... I think our generation over-pathologizes everything. Mm-hmm. And that is a sickness in itself.
**Unknown:** You know, when you start labeling yourself with, "I have all these, you know, scary root cause things," it creates a, a nocebo response, which is something I've been preaching about a lot lately, is, you know, that psychosomatic, like, you're stressing- Belief ... yourself out. You're creating- Yeah ... all this anxiety and worry.
**Unknown:** So, but o- objectivity, at the end of the day. You know, using the right biomarkers to objectively know, is this even a relevant problem for you? Yeah. And a lotta times it, it might not be.
**Unknown:** You know, and even adding to what you're saying, what I would say is the objectivity, but also the perception. And I, I say this because I think that... and I, I can guarantee you've experienced this. This level of duality when it comes to the healing process of good and bad.
**Unknown:** You know, sometimes you run markers after you get started with someone, and let's say you're two months or three months in and you're, you're going and reviewing some markers that were originally out of range. And sometimes those markers are not, quote-unquote, better, but they're actually responding exactly the way they are supposed to based on the detox protocol that you're implementing or, or whatever you're, you're implementing as phase one of that healing process. And so I think that our job is to help people understand what progress looks like. Mm.
**Unknown:** Because there are plenty of individuals, they're like, "I wanna lower my cholesterol." Fantastic. Well, guess what? Your liver is extremely compromised, and you have fungal issues throughout your cardiovascular system, so we're not gonna see positive changes in your cholesterol levels until we deal with these issues. And depending on how your body responds, this could be a short amount of time.
**Unknown:** It could be a longer amount of time. Everybody's different. So let's stop focusing on that number that's really just psychosomatic because you just wanna see it look better, even if it doesn't mean that you're overall healthier. But my goal for you is to actually be healthier and to help- Mm ...
**Unknown:** to resolve these underlying issues that are creating a ticking time bomb for neurological degeneration and heart attack and all of these other scary things. So, you know, there's so much deprogramming- Mm ... that we need to be doing as practitioners. This, you know, this idea of people just thinking there's good, there's bad, there's right, there's wrong, there's this one thing that must be the reason for all of it.
**Unknown:** You know, I think it just comes back to these foundational principles of, you know, do your major organ systems work the way they're supposed to, or are they completely compromised because of the series of compounding years and years and years of different lifestyle choices? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things.
**Unknown:** It's like you can find problems if you go digging enough. Yeah. And, and something a lotta times I'm, you know, training practitioners on is we do have to delineate between, like, biomarkers that have established clinical significance and/or diagnostic value versus a biomarker that's really research purposes only versus a functional lab test that a lot of these biomarkers on functional labs do not have established clinical significance. Now, it doesn't mean that there's no value to that data, but it's not clearly defined of what that really means.
**Unknown:** And so from, you know, it, it's one of those things of like how can we really objectively qualify-... clinical progress if we're not using clinically sound relevant data, right? And, you know, this is not stuff that, you know, consumers would know how to do. I mean, hell, a lot of practitioners are confused as shit.
**Unknown:** You know what I mean? Like, there's new tests, new biomarkers constantly, but, you know, this is where, like, you look at the trends in the physiology. You're seeing how, you know, different markers that are relevant to their health, health goals are changing. Obviously, there's gonna be an organic flux.
**Unknown:** You know, we all know health isn't linear. It's up and down. But man, definitely overcomplicating things a lot, and it's making sure that, like, the metrics of health are relevant to their specific goal and using very sensitive data points 'cause I think there's a lack of follow through. A lot of times when I'll get, like, a new client, they might have, you know, a, a stack of, you know, previous labs from the past 10 years and all these other practitioners that they've worked with, but a lot of times there's not any retesting.
**Unknown:** Like, you know, they did- Yep ... this test one time. They did that test one time. They did this other test one time.
**Unknown:** Yeah. But where's the follow through? Like- Yeah ... in my humble opinion, it's like, you know, you should have years and years of, of blood work where you're seeing a lot of- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** the foundational markers, and you see the trend over, over the course of time. Like, that's where you monitor the physiology. That's where, you know, you can see what's getting better, what's getting worse over the course of, of time. These days- I think in my opinion- ...
**Unknown:** we have some great biomarkers ... it, with that, though, this is, that's a pra- this is more on, like, the business side. That's a practitioner issue because- Mm-hmm ... how many practitioners have a proven proprietary process to say- Right ...
**Unknown:** "This is what we do to get all of our data points. This is what we do to reevaluate. This is when, you know, we expect to see, you know, changes by this percentage at this time period." You know, that's how I design my programs. So I don't work with people a la carte because g- doing this for 10 years, it's exactly what you're saying.
**Unknown:** Like, did I help this person, or did I not? Yeah. Do they know if they've been helped, or do they not? They're just on to the next.
**Unknown:** And I realize that it wasn't necessarily their fault in some instances is they didn't know what to do because I wasn't- Right ... clear as a practitioner to say, "This is the process, and if you follow the process, I've done this long enough to know that this is what you can expect in this time period." And so, you know, in certain situations there are people that are like, "Heck yeah, that's the model that I wanna be in." And then there's other people that say, "I just wanna get a little protocol and move on with my life." Fantastic. I'm not the doctor for you. But, you know, you...
**Unknown:** I've, I've been able to see what you're talking about, seeing these, these markers, like dramatic things, like autoimmune liver conditions resolving, and, like, that's the best feeling in the world and the best information you can give to a client to say, "Look how powerful your body is." It's not that your body isn't gonna have issues later down the line at some point because life is life, and stressors are stressors. But, like, this is a reminder of how resilient you are, and I don't think that there are a lot of practitioners talking about that, talking about the body's power, the power of the mind, and the fact that we are very resilient with the right tools and the right strategy. Mm-hmm. 'Cause I always say to people, "It's not about what you do.
**Unknown:** It's about how you do it." You could take 55 supplements. If they weren't the right supplements for you, you're not gonna see a change. Mm. "Oh, I, I, I tried infrared sauna.
**Unknown:** I didn't like it. It made me feel sick." Fantastic. Did you try infrared sauna in combination with other things that support your lymphatics and your liver? "Oh, no, I didn't do that." Well, it's not that it was bad for you.
**Unknown:** It was just probably you stirred things up, and you didn't have enough support for the rest of the body. And so, like, that's what I love doing is, is this educational piece because people are swimming in such mixed information, overwhelming information, and I think you really hit the, the nail on the head with talking about this idea of these sensational, provocative posts. Like, I'm so done with social media, and I keep being part of it because I want to continue to educate on that platform. But it's like you said, is people are getting sidetracked from the big, flashy thing that actually has no clinical relevance and if anything could potentially become harmful.
**Unknown:** You know, we were talking about Ozempic and things like that, and it's just being marketed as this, as this blanketed solution. And it's- Yeah ... no. Yeah.
**Unknown:** I mean, it's, it's, it's wild. Yeah, I, I mean, I, I... Like I was saying before, I think these days everybody kind of over-pathologizes. I also think victim mentality is just rampant, you know?
**Unknown:** And, you know, you see it all the time, like the, the, the clients, the patients that really transform their health and transform their life. You know, they are. They're resilient. They work hard.
**Unknown:** They're, they're committed. It's just a different archetype, you know, and it's, like, one in, you know, 50 or something. Like, it's, it's not, it's not everybody. And, and unfortunately in today's world of instant gratification and AI and, you know, with the Ozempic thing is, is a great example, which I'm, I'm blown away at how, you know, big it's gotten.
**Unknown:** I mean, it makes sense. Like, I... It's the, the most miracle weight loss drug ever created so far. So I get it.
**Unknown:** I understand why it's gotten so big, and it... but it's weird to me to see how polarized it's gotten 'cause, like, I'll post about Ozempic, and, and I really only have the one post. But I recycle it every, you know, two, three months. And every time I repost it, I kind of put, like, a little bit of a different spin on it to see if it changes the way people react to it, and it, and it does, you know.
**Unknown:** Because the whole point of the post is more so, like, "Hey, Ozempic, that's a thing. That's an option."And if you wanna go that route, good for you. Do it well, do it responsibly, do it functionally, minimum effective dose, blah, blah, blah. Know, know the potential risks.
**Unknown:** But my whole thing as a unlicensed practitioner that can't prescribe and has no interest in prescribing is, like, I wanna teach people how to harness their body's natural endogenous GLP-1. But it amazes me how much people will kinda freak out about it one way or the other, you know, as if it's all good or all bad. And the reality is there's a lot of, you know, as an American in America, you know, I can't speak for everybody, but, you know, Americans now that there's so much access to Ozempic because every, every practitioner with a medical license, you know, they're happy to prescribe Ozempic. It's good cashflow.
**Unknown:** Yeah. You know? It's, it's a great business model. It's easy cashflow.
**Unknown:** Everybody wants it. But, you know, we're already seeing and hearing all these not so good stories of, like... Even just the other day I was talking to a nurse, and some of these patients have, like... Okay, they get put on Ozempic.
**Unknown:** They haven't really been taught anything about nutrition or lifestyle first, and then they're having, like, stomach paralysis and constipation. So then they're given, like, MiraLAX to ameliorate the constipation caused by the Ozempic. Mm-hmm. And then they're hungry and having cravings, so they reach for a Snickers bar.
**Unknown:** And it's like, okay, why don't we just do basic holistic nutrition lifestyle fitness foundations? Yeah. See how far that gets us, and if you wanna sprinkle in a little O- Ozempic on top, right? But that's kinda part of the problem, is we have this high degree of accessibility, but still kind of a very low educational level when it comes to what builds health at a, you know, populous level.
**Unknown:** So it's just, it's a little noisy these days. Yeah. And you know, I, I think that the, the quick and fast answer to the question of, you know, why don't p- why don't we teach people just to, you know, understand more about nutrition, it's... You know, the quick and easy answer is people wanna just keep going, going, going, doing, doing, doing.
**Unknown:** And, you know, taking some type of pill or some other type of solution is, is the easy route. But, you know, now living in Italy, I just, I feel like the... We've taken the basic things out of life in America. You know?
**Unknown:** There is not many children, individuals here that don't know how to cook a meal, don't understand what seasons produce is grown. Like, it's embedded here, and it was never lost. And, you know, you walk through a grocery store, and you ask the majority of individuals walking around that grocery store, you know, w- of this produce area, what, what's in season, they can't answer that question. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** And, you know, if you say, "If you can only shop and get produce and protein, can you cook yourself a decent meal?" Yeah. And the answer is, "Oh, I could throw it on the barbecue." You know? Yeah. Most people don't know how to actually curate a meal for themselves.
**Unknown:** And so, you know, this is, this is a very unfortunate reality that a lot of people just don't have any interest in changing. They rather keep, you know... They keep s- keep scrolling or keep doing things that essentially decline their mental health and raise that, you know, that stress response in the nervous system. So this is...
**Unknown:** It, it's such a grand issue- Mm-hmm ... that people really have to take an interest in saying, "I'm done with this." Mm-hmm. I want to know how... I wanna, I wanna understand more of the simple things of life, how to curate a meal for myself, how to teach my kids to do the same.
**Unknown:** And I know, and I'm sure you've been through periods of time, it's like, when you get busy and you're an entrepreneur and you're driven and you have this vision, like, we even lose sight of it sometimes. Mm-hmm. And but no one around you is saying, "What are you doing? You gotta, you gotta eat something." Like, they're just like, "Keep going.
**Unknown:** Make that money. You're gonna get there," you know? Yeah. It's like we're cheering that lifestyle on opposed to saying, "You're gonna burn yourself out," and then you're going to sit back one day and say, "What was it all for?" Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** So I'm gonna create a commune, and you're invited. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. Yeah, no.
**Unknown:** I... Well, that's what's kind of... It, it... Like, t- times are getting weird, you know?
**Unknown:** There, there's more options than ever. 'Cause, like, you know, I, I kinda see both sides of it. Something that I see, like, within the functional medicine space, um, and I'm thinking of a lot of really big companies in our industry, but there is a shift going towards... Like, you know, the traditional model is, you know, these companies serve healthcare practitioners, and then the healthcare practitioners serve the consumers, the clients, the patients.
**Unknown:** Now everything is going to more of, like, a direct-to-consumer model, you know? Everything is starting to shift to... 'Cause people, you know, we, we call them consumers, but people. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** You know, people want to be educated. They want to have the education to make their own informed decisions, and so that's where everything's going. And that is kinda like... Capitalism is like a double-edged sword, right?
**Unknown:** Because it's like the market goes where, where the demand goes. It goes where the customers go. So if the customers start becoming more educated, and they're asking the more educated questions, and they're being more scrutinous about, you know, what supplements do I buy, what lab testing do I buy, what, you know... So it's, it's all very consumerism driven, but then it's very, like, trend driven 'cause then you look at...
**Unknown:** Like, with nutrition, I don't... It's crazy to me thinking back to the beginning of my career and how much nutrition and diet trends, rather, ha- has changed. Mm-hmm. You know?
**Unknown:** We, we overcomplicate it so much, and now it's like we have all these, like, factions and factionism of, like, "Oh, I'm a carnivore," "I'm a vegan," and- Yeah ... uh, just the polarization in i- in itself is kind of a disease. But, but, you know, the commune comment is kind of interesting because-There is that. You know, there's still like hustle culture is still going, but there's also this like, okay, alcohol is no longer in style, right?
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. And now here's what's funny about it though, Nicole, between you and me, a lot of it is just ego driven. Like the majority of it is all ego driven because the ego wants to identify- Mm ... with something different, something unique.
**Unknown:** We all wanna feel like a special, special snowflake. And it's ironic, going back- Little flake ... to what I was saying about, you know, genetics where it's like all human beings are 99.9% genetically identical. It's that .01% that makes us different.
**Unknown:** And so like we, we squeal so much about bio-individuality, and yet it's like 99.9% of the foundations of health, it's gonna be the same from one person to the next. Mm. Like, you know, if you're focused on the .01 of, well, how do I treat this snip- Yeah ... right?
**Unknown:** And it's like you're completely losing, losing the big picture, right? So but the, the whole like, you know, commune, there, there are more and more people that are so fed up with this sort of matrix capitalistic nonsense that, yeah, people are, you know, wanting to move to other countries or, or move off the grid and everything. And I like seeing that movement of this like back to nature, back- Yeah ... to community.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. You know, screw this messed up virtual system that we've created. Let's unplug and get back to our basic roots, you know? Yeah.
**Unknown:** I was joking with Nick when we were first, first talking about moving to Italy, and I was like, "Dude, I'll pick grapes." Like- ... I can pick grapes. Like I can do that. Yeah.
**Unknown:** Yeah. I feel very fortunate that the work that I do, I have the ability to do it just like this, you know, through virtual- Yeah ... consultation. But and I still have a team out in, in the States that's helping, you know, with the other aspects of the business.
**Unknown:** But, you know, I will say there is something to being in nature more and having... picking lemons from the lemon tree in your yard. You know, it's- Yeah ... it's healing on a, on an energetic level, on a- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** mental level. It's just, it's a different way of life that I never, never in a million years thought I would be embarking on because if you asked me even 10 years ago, I was like, "I'm gonna build an empire." And am I interested in still making a global impact? 100%. But the, the definition of that or the vision of that for me now is, is very, very, very different.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. So- I think I just wanna like be a cannabis and mushroom farmer at this point. Like that's what really resonates with me I think. There's, there's room on the, on the commune, so don't you worry.
**Unknown:** Yeah. All right. So I know we talked about a lot of different things, and if we were to give the audience, let's say, one to three major misconceptions that they need to keep their eyes open for when it comes to mixed information that's creating this level of dysfunction in functional medicine- Yeah ... what would you say it would be?
**Unknown:** And I know this is like a super difficult question, but hey, we're gonna roll with it. Yeah. Well, I mean, it, it is, and there's a lot of layers to it, but I mean, the n- the number one thing is be objective in your healing. You know, it's something I'm posting about often and, and everything.
**Unknown:** And when I say be objective, and I'm... you know, I'll be doing different educational things 'cause, you know, a podcast we keep it sort of high level and everything, and it, it does get very individualized, right? But specifically objectivity means like tracking your symptoms objectively, tracking, you know... W- When I work with a private client, the way I'm assessing progress is kinda three different dimensions of perceived quality of life using a questionnaire.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Perceived symptomatology. Now perception is subjective. Yep.
**Unknown:** But then, you know, the objective layer is the, the biomarkers, right? Yeah. So I think, you know, it would really benefit people to be doing, you know, at least basic if not comprehensive blood work at least twice a year, you know, tracking some of these core markers. Maybe sometimes you look into more exotic markers.
**Unknown:** But tracking the physiology or, or some kind of objective data point, you know, that's where, you know, the wearables are, are great these days. Mm. The Oura Rings, and the Whoop Bands, and the HRV, and the continuous glucose monitors because it is, it's objective data. It's specific.
**Unknown:** It's sensitive. So I just think that objectivity is really step one. The objectivity would cut through so much of the noise. But then the second big thing that I've been saying for a long time, when you're looking at all these health influencers, rather than like looking at what each person i- each person like specializes in, and what their niche, and what their sort of area of focus or interest, like don't, don't focus on what everybody's saying different.
**Unknown:** Focus on what we're all saying in common. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** We all preach for sleep hygiene, and stress management, and exercise, and whole food nutrition, and hydration. You know, we all preach about these, these foundational things, but everybody's sort of squabbling over like the hypotheticals, and the theoretical nitpickiness, and the myopic stuff. So objectivity and foundational work, that's really where it is. Yeah.
**Unknown:** I, I very much agree. And I, I think that it's, it's taking that objectivity also into what you're seeing that piques your interest on these social platforms. You know, it was a, it was a very comical, but I think it was on TikTok, and there was an individual who debunked an influencer promoting one of those hydrogen water bottles. Mm.
**Unknown:** I think I saw that. And this woman was an influencer, and she said, "You know, because water has no hydrogen in it, that's why you need to-" Yeah ... "hydrogenate it through-" Yeah ... "this bottle." And He just pulls up H2O.
**Unknown:** He's like, "Yep, H2 means two hydrogens." Yeah. "But that's okay. Everything's fine." Yeah. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And I- You know, I know the exact video- Did you see it? ... that you're talking about I was dead. I was like- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** "Wow, it's, it's so true." It's ... If you see something that piques your interest, it's just, you know, do some research. Retain, reclaim your common sense. Yeah.
**Unknown:** You know? Because there's a lot of things out there that seem great, but maybe are, are not. And, and I think that this idea of it's not about what you do but how you do it- Mm-hmm ... is probably my takeaway for the au- audience.
**Unknown:** And I've said this a million times in many webinars, but there, there's a lot out there, you know. Mm. From different diets, as you were mentioning, from different therapies and medical devices and PEMFs and infrared saunas, and lymphatic drainage and compression. There's a million things.
**Unknown:** And so it doesn't mean everything is what you need, and in some instances, maybe not anything, depending on you, the objectivity of what your data is saying about where your body is at, where your mind is at. Mm-hmm. So it's like we need, we need our practitioner to be our partner. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** They need to have a vested interest in really wanting to be that investigator and give us the data that's valuable, but then also help us to navigate h- what do we do about that data? Mm-hmm. Well, and, and to your point, sort of as we, you know, wrap up, the, the approach that I take, and maybe it's my background, maybe it's just the way my brain works, but I very much ... Like, I do have ...
**Unknown:** And there's a specific client in my head that I'm thinking about. You know, my clients will ask for very precise recommendations from me, and- Mm-hmm ... that's not how I roll. Uh, you know, and my practitioner students- Mm-hmm ...
**Unknown:** they're like, "Brendan, give me the protocol." And it's like- Yep ... there is no the protocol. You know, the way that I operate and the way I believe most practitioners should be operating is, no, we educate, empower, we present options, and we essentially are helping them structure their own little mini experiments. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** You know? That's how it should be. Not this dictator, I tell you what to do. People's compliance are gonna be a lot higher if they were the ones that decided to do it, if they created their own plan.
**Unknown:** Yeah. You know, so it's a lot like parenting, you know, where you present your child with ... You don't wanna give them too many options. Yeah.
**Unknown:** Like, what kind of ice cream do you want? Do you want rocky road, vanilla, chocolate, strawberry? Don't give them too many options- Yeah, yeah ... 'cause they're gonna get ...
**Unknown:** It's like, do you want vanilla or chocolate? Make the decision. Great. Were you happy with that decision?
**Unknown:** Maybe next time go with the vanilla, right? Yeah. Like, keep it simple. Oh.
**Unknown:** It's a lot of parenting. I'm dying laughing because these are, like, regular conversations with Baby Q, so I totally get it. Totally get it. I believe it.
**Unknown:** I believe it. Um, but that kid's got a personality, so he pretty much, like, puts me in my place on a daily basis, so here we are. I believe it. Oh, now I'm, like, totally forgot my, my, like, ending point that it was really good in my brain.
**Unknown:** I'm sure it was. Oh. It'll come back. Oh, yes.
**Unknown:** I, I think that, you know, the biggest thing is we ... The goal of this podcast was to shed some light on where functional medicine can be perceived as dysfunctional. It could be perceived as not a good option, or it could be perceived as, you know, scammy or whatever the negative connotations are happening. But it's, it's really just it ...
**Unknown:** There, there are some factors that are playing into this, and as we talked about, you know, social media is definitely disillusioning some people. Don't get me wrong, you can go on Google and type in, like, what's the best diet for me? And that's gonna be a lot of confusing, mixed information as well. So I think it's really just a matter of finding the trusted practitioner that suits you as a person, so just because your friend recommended someone they like doesn't mean they're a fit for you.
**Unknown:** You know, everyone's needs are very different, and it's really a matter of getting the right data, knowing how to use the data, and playing that active role, as you were mentioning, in, in your healing process. You know, that's what I was gonna say is I struggled with when I would teach other practitioners, and I know that you're a teacher as well, because that was the, the question: What's the protocol? I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no. That's, that's not how it works," because everybody's needs are, are different.
**Unknown:** And what I kinda wanna close with is one of your posts, and I'll, I ... Maybe I'll say it wrong, but I loved it, is you said something along the lines on, like, you can't break your limiting beliefs when your brain is on fire. Mm. Your brain is inflamed.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. And I, and I loved that so much because there is this, this focus right now on mental health, with I ... which I think is amazing and it's valuable because it is a big part of why we become symptomatic and have chronic illness. But it's like everyone is different.
**Unknown:** I have worked with some individuals that they needed to balance the biochemistry and balance, decrease that inflammation, and help to balance their serotonin and dopamine levels before they even wanted to go and work on their known PTSD or work on- Mm ... the emotional layers to their situation. And then in other situations, it was the opposite. Yeah.
**Unknown:** There were some people that those programs, those limits were so big that they needed to deal with that first, and then actually some of their biochemistry changed- Mm-hmm ... from that shift. Mm-hmm. And so everyone is different.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. And I think that's the beauty of what we do, but it's just a matter of creating that trusted partnership, practitioner to client. Couldn't agree more. It's that co-created healing program that's gonna work for you.
**Unknown:** 100%. Well, thank you so much for being here, real and raw. This is my most fun when we get to just, you know, get weird and, and be disruptive. Where can everyone find you?
**Unknown:** If they are a practitioner looking to get access to some of your courses, if they are someone looking to work with you one on one, drop, drop some of those URLs for us. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate you, Nicole. It ...
**Unknown:** You're a great friend. I clearly remember the first time meeting at Microbiome Keynote- Yeah ... back in, like, 2019 or something. Oh, my.
**Unknown:** So no, it's been a pleasure. I'll, I'll look forward to running it back on, on my show in the coming months, and I'm not hard to find. The Holistic Savage on Instagram, that's the main platform. Got the podcast, The Holistic Savage Podcast.
**Unknown:** Website is metabolicsolutionsllc.com. But Instagram, that's still the primary platform. That's kinda the big funnel, so put out a lot of good stuff out there and can, you know, funnel their way to all of the things. You have awesome posts.
**Unknown:** They are always pique my interest, so really appreciate what you're doing in the industry, and we really hope that everyone enjoyed this episode. And the next time you hear from the two of us, we will be on The Holistic Savage Podcast. It'll be a good time. Looking forward to it.
**Unknown:** All right, everyone. Until next time. We thank you so much for being an avid listener of Integrative U Radio, formerly known as Integrative Wellness Radio. We appreciate all of your support.
**Unknown:** We love your comments. Please visit us on social media as well as our website to see all of the fun things happening behind the scenes, and the new amazing content and courses that is being rolled out on a monthly basis. We hope to see you there.
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About Integrative You Radio
Integrative You Radio is a root cause medicine and integrative medicine podcast hosted by Dr. Nicole Rivera and Dr. Nick Carruthers — two integrative doctors who build personalized wellness protocols from your DNA, minerals, hormones, gut, and nervous system rather than from a population template. Looking for an integrative doctor who reads your labs together instead of in isolation? This is the show.
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