Understanding Autoimmune Connective Tissue Disorders
Episode 158
We are back this week with another autoimmune disorder and this episode is all about different autoimmune connective tissue disorders such as Lupus, scleroderma, and Osler Rendu as just to name a few. Listen to Dr. Nicole as she dives into why some of these disorders manifest in the first place and where do they originate from. She dissects why most of the people suffering from these disorders might not have been able to find a proper solution that is outside of just living on immunosuppressants. Tune in to learn more! Interested in learning more about Dr. Nick & Dr. Nicole’s courses, memberships, or private work? Learn more at Integrative You . Have a quick question, Would you like to schedule a call, or just want to say hi? Text us at 732.913.0009. Our mission to innovate humans & Healthcare does NOT start and stop with us! This is why we are also dedicated to helping other practitioners in evolving healthcare too! If you are a healthcare leader and are looking to up-level your clinical + business excellence Learn more about our course membership: Limitless Healthprenuer and start boldly disrupting this industry! Noteworthy Time Stamps: 01:34 Why you might resonate with this topic? 05:16 Foundational principle to understanding connective tissue disorders 10:42 Why would the immune system attack the connective tissue? 14:51 A case study 24:47 What is ‘PANDAS’ disorder? 29:01 You won’t know until you do better testing 30:15 A patient with a 10-year history of Lupus 35:50 You can’t always rely on the bloodwork markers 41:37 It’s about therapy and acknowledgment 46:05 The biggest myth of autoimmunity
Topics: connective, autoimmune, tissue, disorders, immune, unknown, lupus, understanding
Key takeaways from this episode
- ## Understanding Autoimmune Connective Tissue Disorders
- Autoimmune connective tissue disorders involve the immune system mistakenly attacking the body's structural tissues.
- Understanding the foundational principles of connective tissue function is crucial to grasping these disorders.
- The origin of an autoimmune attack on connective tissue is often multifaceted and not always fully understood by conventional medicine.
- Many individuals with these conditions are seeking solutions beyond standard immunosuppressant therapy.
Pull quotes
Imagine if medicine actually looked at you as a whole opposed to looking at you as a bunch of separate systems.
Nicole to learn more about the top trends in integrative medicine to learn about what the limitations are with testing and what you can do to start your health journey.
Sometimes I tend to lose myself when I'm out here on my own. **Unknown:** Hi, everyone.
Transcript
**Unknown:** I been up all night, no sleep. Imagine if medicine actually looked at you as a whole opposed to looking at you as a bunch of separate systems. No sleep. Dive into Integrative Wellness Radio with Dr.
**Unknown:** Nick and Dr. Nicole to learn more about the top trends in integrative medicine to learn about what the limitations are with testing and what you can do to start your health journey. I'm always dreaming. Sometimes I tend to lose myself when I'm out here on my own.
**Unknown:** Hi, everyone. So, um, so as you know, we are talking all about autoimmunity this month. As we talk tonight, uh, so we're gonna be touching base on a variety of different, um, autoimmune connective tissue disorders like lupus and scleroderma, Osler-Rendu, which is a pretty rare connective tissue disorder, and even just mixed connective tissue disorder. And my goal is, is for you to understand more about the origin of why these different conditions manifest, but also to understand some of the limitations with the testing and even the research as to why you might not really be getting a solution that is outside of just an immunosuppressant.
**Unknown:** And I'm gonna talk to you also about some really, really interesting case studies of, uh, patients that I've worked with that have had many different root causes when it comes to their autoimmune conditions. And I promise you, it is things that you have never heard before. So for those of you listening, you know, you're probably attracted to this topic 'cause either yourself or someone else around you that, you know, is a friend or a loved one is dealing with some type of autoimmune condition like lupus or scleroderma, et cetera. But the thing you have to understand that you're gonna learn tonight is that this is not necessarily about the diagnosis.
**Unknown:** This is about understanding the bigger picture beyond it. Because when I work with someone, it's never that you just have lupus or you just have an autoimmune condition. There are usually other pieces of the puzzle that are all intertwined that are either the cause or a side effect or both. So when I ...
**Unknown:** you know, people ask me what I do, I work with a lot of different types of conditions. And because it's not about the condition, it's not about the pathology, it's about what is the foundational reason for why your immune system is not functioning properly. What is the foundational reason why you're so fatigued, and you can't sleep, and, you know, you can't think straight? There is always going to be a foundational reason.
**Unknown:** And I think that this is somewhat refreshing to people, and you'll see this more as we continue the conversation. But when I work with my patients, you know, they're so overwhelmed when they come through my doors because at that point, they have so many symptoms. They're like, "I'm in pain. I'm achy.
**Unknown:** I'm tired, but I can't sleep at night, and I can't think clearly. And like, I can't even articulate, uh, words or, or have a c- intellectual conversation." And they just feel so broken. And when we actually do their testing and I'm able to piece the puzzle together, they're refreshed to know that there's not a million things wrong with them. There's really just one or two foundational reasons as to why they feel the way they do, and there's usually somewhat of a simple way of, of helping them heal and helping them tackle those things.
**Unknown:** So I'm not gonna sit here and say the healing process is sunshine and rainbows, but when you know the root cause, really anything is possible from a healing perspective. So first and foremost, I always want you to know that if you have not been able to get better, it is not your fault. If the medications that you've taken have not helped you, it is not your fault. If you tried to, tried to change your diet and it didn't help you, it's not your fault.
**Unknown:** If you just tried to research what can I do in conjunction with my medications and you became paralyzed, it's not your fault. There is so much information out there, which is amazing but at the same time, it's overwhelming, and it's confusing. And the most important thing that you need to know is that what you need is completely different than what somebody else needs. I do not care if you and your best friend both have been diagnosed with lupus.
**Unknown:** Your needs are going to be completely different for what diet you should eat, what supplements you should take, what medication you potentially need because the root of why that developed is going to be different. So it's not your fault if you have kinda thrown your hands up and said, "You know what? I don't even know where to begin, so I'm gonna just quit," because you need better testing, and you need to know your body and what your body needs to be successful at actually getting better. So a foundational principle for understanding everything we're gonna talk about tonight is some of you are here because you're like, "Oh, well, she must be an expert in lupus, scleroderma, mixed connective tissue disorder," et cetera.
**Unknown:** I personally feel that always seeking out the specialist in our condition is potentially what gets us to hit roadblocks with our health. And I say this because we are assuming that all of our systems are, are operating separately. We're assuming that our gut is not connected to our brain, and our brain is not connected to our heart, and our immune system is not connected to our lymph nodes, et cetera. We are assuming that we are a bunch of separate systems that are working independently.And that brings me to the second point of basic physiology.
**Unknown:** So ninety to ninety-five percent of your serotonin, which is your feel-good hormone, it is the hormone that makes you happy, it allows you to experience joy, this is made in your gut. So if you have irritable bowel syndrome or celiac disease or some other type of gut condition, or maybe you just have bloating, and you are also dealing with depression, you're probably seeing a psychiatrist or a psychologist that's giving you something to boost your serotonin levels or support your mood. And then you're probably also walking with a ga- working with a gastroenterologist that might be giving you some medication to really, um, subdue some of your symptoms. But at the end of the day, that is a hundred percent connected, and it's because most of that serotonin, that feel-good hormone, is being made in your gut.
**Unknown:** So if we try to work with these two things separately, we're not gonna necessarily achieve what we're hoping for, or you're gonna need a higher dose of medication, or you're gonna need to add another antidepressant or eventually an anti-anxiety, et cetera, because we're not getting to the root. And that's the beauty of functional integrative medicine, is being able to decipher what is the root. And I'm not gonna sit here and say that everybody that has depression has a gut issue. Maybe you truly do have a brain imbalance.
**Unknown:** But if you do have some type of gut issue and you're dealing with depression, simply by s- healing your gut, you could potentially boost your serotonin and feel happy again. And one of the biggest things that you have to understand about traditional medical training is that most of the training is on the premise of using chemistry-based testing. So what I mean by that is your most common test that you get on an annual basis is what? It's blood work.
**Unknown:** So blood work is a chemistry-based test. The other interesting thing about blood work is it's just a snapshot in time. So if I run the same exact panel one week later, chances are you will have different results. I'm not gonna say maybe they're polar opposite, but they will be different.
**Unknown:** So when we're looking always at chemistry, chemistry, chemistry, we're looking at chemistry because if you have compromised chemistry, we're going to fix that pathway by manipulating chemistry. AKA, that is the foundation of using drugs, medication, pharmacology. Pharmacology is going to manipulate the pathways, the chemistry-based paths of the body. So we all know that, you know, medication is a for-profit industry, so most of the research and most of the testing that we do is looking for broken chemistry that we can then fix with chemistry, AKA drugs.
**Unknown:** So when we look beyond that, we actually can dig deeper, figure out if there's other layers, and we can actually decipher what is the root cause. And once you understand that information, you can also know that it's not necessarily about this one pill cure or this one-size-fits-all treatment, because every single person's body is extremely different. Again, you could have the same diagnosis, but the way that one person needs to be treated versus the other is going to be completely different. I never cease to be amazed because of the way that we test our patients.
**Unknown:** We actually test their DNA for what types of supplements, herbs, remedies, detox therapies, neurological therapies, what is best for their body, and no two people are alike ever. So when you can get that specific on treatment, that is a game changer because you can see people with the most, you know, significant diagnosis like lupus get better in a few months or a few weeks even. And that's really why I get up every day, is to be able to see these changes that people never thought were possible. So let's get into this whole autoimmune talk about connective tissue.
**Unknown:** So number one, the big question is, is why would the immune system start to attack connective tissue? Better yet, why would it attack certain tissue? So for those of you that are dealing with, say, mixed connective tissue or scleroderma or lupus, you hear about lupus and you read about it, and it's scary because they say, "Well, lupus can affect your joints, but it could eventually progress into affecting your organs." So how does it choose? Why?
**Unknown:** Why does it maybe start in the joints and then go to the organs? Or why does it affect the organs and then go to the joints? Why does it sometimes affect people's cardiovascular system? Why does it sometimes affect people's hands?
**Unknown:** That's always-- Th- this is what I'm talking about when I've always questioned because it doesn't, it doesn't line up to just say, "Oh, well, some people, it's just gonna attack their left hand, and then other people, it's gonna attack their gut." Because connective tissue is your ligaments, it's your tendons, it's your muscles, it's your fascia, it's your organs. Like, it's your blood vessels. Everything is made of connective tissue. So the point of me asking you this is to get you thinking outside of the box because what is the primary role of our immune system?The primary role of our immune system is going to be to attack foreign invaders.
**Unknown:** So in attacking foreign invaders, that's gonna be things like bacteria, fungus, mold, parasites, toxins, all different types of chemicals, mold. I said mold. Um, but overall, your immune system is designed to protect you from anything that is going to be damaging. So if you have some type of foreign invader that gets into your body and then gets into a specific tissue, which we're gonna elaborate further on, wouldn't it make sense that if the immune system is doing its job, it's coming to the scene of wherever that foreign invader is, and it's trying to attack that foreign invader.
**Unknown:** But if that foreign invader or that bacteria or that fungus is burrowed within a tissue, then unfortunately that tissue is in the line of fire. It is gonna start to have breakdown because of the inflammatory process. 'Cause that's all that an immune system attack is, is an inflammatory cascade. So if you think about it, when your immune system is attacking things and you are inflamed, that's when all those symptoms kick up.
**Unknown:** You feel feverish, you feel swollen, you feel tired, you feel like you have a headache, you, you have aches, pains, et cetera. So then you get diagnosed with your autoimmune condition, and they give you an immunosuppressant. So your immunosuppressant shuts down your immune system, AKA shuts down the im- uh, inflammatory response, and you feel better. But the thing about it is that you just shut down your immune system from attacking the primary thing that is damaging your tissue.
**Unknown:** So this is why these immune-- autoimmune conditions progress is because you are suppressing the immune system and suppressing the inflammatory response, and you're controlling your symptoms, but you are actually perpetuating the root cause, which is a foreign invader that your testing or your doctor has not found yet. So when we talk about why certain tissues, it's because different organisms have an affinity for different tissues. So I wanna tell you a story specifically in relation to what we're talking about here. I have a patient, she came in with fatigue, depression, tons of body aches, um, and then after we did her testing, it turned out that she had lupus presenting in her left hand.
**Unknown:** So number one, one thing I want you to understand is that she was working, um, with, uh, her primary care physician, and she was ... she had her second child, and she was talking all about having a lot of body aches. And she was having a lot of joint pain, and she was really fatigued. So her physician ran, um, actually ran lupus markers, ran the ANA marker, which, uh, is related to lupus and other types of autoimmune conditions, and they all came up negative.
**Unknown:** So I think it was about four weeks later she was getting worse. So she came to see me, and she was still experiencing a lot of these body aches. I ran blood work, and then I ran a variety of other tests that we do in-house. And her ANA marker was positive four weeks later.
**Unknown:** So can I sit here and say that four weeks prior she didn't have lupus? No. She probably did. But the immune system is super resilient, so things can ebb and flow.
**Unknown:** So when you go to the doctor and you get a positive ANA, and then they retest it a couple of weeks later, and then it's negative, it's like, "Oh, I'm in the clear. I don't actually have lupus." That's not the right way to think about that. The right way to think about it is your immune system is still trying. It's still strong enough that it is trying to get back to a place of homeostasis.
**Unknown:** But if you don't do anything about your current health situation, that will progress to the point that you have full-blown lupus all the time. So it's not about just like, "Oh, it's negative. I'm in the clear." It's your body saying, "Hey, I'm really trying here, but you need to help me out." So her marker was positive, but the thing about it is that you look at blood work, and then the end of the story is, is, "Oh, you have lupus," and, and that's ... If you don't dig any deeper, it would just be, "That's the answer, and we need to put you on medication," and that's the end of the story.
**Unknown:** So because of the way that we look at the body and a lot of the testing that we do, I was able to see where the lupus was manifesting, and it was specifically in her left hand. So here's the kicker. Why her left hand? So if this was really just about, um ...
**Unknown:** If this was really just about her in relation to, like, her joints, then it would be in most of her joints, not just her left hand. But there is an emotional tie to the left hand. So left side of the body emotionally is tied to a female figure. In addition to that, when you're dealing with autoimmune manifestations in different parts of the body, this is going to be tied to what are you holding onto.
**Unknown:** That is the specific emotional tie to the hand. So because of this presenting in this way, I asked her and I said, "Is there anything specific that is going on-"With a female figure in your life that you're holding on to. And she kind of broke down and she's like, I'm dealing with a big blowout fight that I got into with my mom and I haven't spoke with her for four weeks and it's eating away at me. And I thought that this was just so significant because this is a patient who potentially would have just been deemed a lupus case and she would have just been put on this immunosuppressant and been told, you know, this is just the reality of your condition and this is what you need to do to maintain it.
**Unknown:** But there was a deep, deep emotional connection that she was not necessarily dealing with in that moment. So we helped her to kind of work through some of the things that she was dealing with with her mom. And when we retested her, her ANA, we retested it four weeks later and then we tested another eight weeks later and it was completely stable. In addition to all of our other testing that we did in-house also did not present with lupus anymore.
**Unknown:** So the point of me saying this is not that every single person that has this autoimmune condition has an emotional tie, but this is the beauty of digging deeper, asking better questions and being able to understand that it's not always just about an immune system gone rogue. So all of this talk about connective tissue, you might be thinking, okay, well, what the heck are these foreign invaders that potentially can trigger this? Because again, it's assumed, oh, well, the immune system just goes rogue and starts to attack parts of the body. So it is not limited to these things, but the most, most common organisms that I find that are associated with different disorders, and this includes neurological disorders that are autoimmune, is Lyme disease, specifically triggered by the bacteria called Borrelia burgdorferi.
**Unknown:** The other one being syphilis, which I'm going to elaborate further on because many people think syphilis is long gone. It is not even something that is part of society anymore. And also everybody thinks that it is sexually transmitted, which is also not true. The other one is strep.
**Unknown:** Yes, the strep that gets into your throat. I have found strep in people's knees and people's heart. I found it in women's uterus that are dealing with polyps or uterine fibroids. In addition, the other one associated with autoimmune conditions of the hands, including rheumatoid arthritis, is mold.
**Unknown:** So let's elaborate further on this. So when we are talking about Lyme disease, this bacteria called Borrelia, and the other being syphilis, these are two different bacterias that are classified as spirochetes. So think of a spirochete as a corkscrew-shaped worm. So what happens is you get infected with either one of these organisms that can come from either a tick bite, a spider bite, a mosquito bite.
**Unknown:** It could be sexually transmitted. It could be passed down from mom. All of those are possibilities. So you get exposed to this bacteria.
**Unknown:** It moves through your body, and then it finds vulnerable tissue. So if you had a ton of urinary tract infections when you were young, your bladder or urinary tract might be susceptible, vulnerable tissue. If you were a basketball player or a soccer player and you banged up your knees, that could be vulnerable tissue. If you've had constant gut issues most of your life, that can be your susceptible tissue.
**Unknown:** So it's really a matter of what tissue has been inflamed or damaged. That's where this organism, it's going to find that tissue. It's going to corkscrew itself into that tissue, and that's going to be its new home. So this helps you to understand why when you're doing traditional blood work, you're potentially not finding these things.
**Unknown:** And it's because it's in your connective tissue. It is not in your blood. These things are burrowed. They're hiding.
**Unknown:** So you have to use very specific labs and very specific strategies to figure this out. So for those of you that are like, I've been tested for Lyme. They tested it in my blood. That was negative.
**Unknown:** That test is not good enough. You have to do it in the right way. You need to work with physicians that are Lyme literate, that know what they're doing. And syphilis, nobody's testing for syphilis.
**Unknown:** But the fascinating thing about syphilis is that it is the great imitator of psoriasis. So sometimes it's psoriasis. Sometimes it's eczema patches. Sometimes it's hives.
**Unknown:** Syphilis has a huge manifestation in the skin. And syphilis, again, is not going to always be transmitted sexually. This can be passed in many, many different ways. But both of these organisms are spirochetes that corkscrew themselves into connective tissue.
**Unknown:** And that is one of the primary reasons why you can develop these autoimmune connective tissue disorders. Literally, you're going to have your immune system come to the scene, target the bacteria, and try to kill it off. That is its job. But it will start to create an inflammatory breakdown process in that connective tissue that eventually will cause a positive ANA in your blood work, which will then be deemed some type of autoimmune connective tissue disorder.So this is two of the most common that I see.
**Unknown:** In addition to that, the strep. So for those of you asking about the autoimmune, um, neurological disorders, so one of the most fascinating things about strep, it is now being acknowledged, but it is being acknowledged mainly in pediatric cases, in cases like PANDAS. So PANDAS is pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric streptococcal disorder. So literally, let's break that down and make it super simple.
**Unknown:** Strep is getting into the cardiovascular system, it's traveling up to the brain, and then the immune system is coming to the scene to be like, "Oh my gosh, this is bad. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. Get rid of it." But it is then causing an autoimmune inflammatory reaction in the brain.
**Unknown:** So I commonly see that strep is associated with either autoimmune neurological disorders, but I also see that it is very common in autoimmune, um, connective tissue disorders that are affecting the cardiovascular system. So these are people that have potentially had different types of aneurysms or have had strokes or have been diagnosed with antiphospholipid syndrome. These are very, very, very tied to strep because as strep gets into the tonsils, it can get into the lymph, then it gets into the blood, and then it starts to affect the cardiovascular system. And this is not my opinion or new information.
**Unknown:** If you've ever heard ... You ever hear how when kids have strep, the doctors freak out and say, "You have to do antibiotics"? The reason being is because there is a known condition called rheumatic fever. Rheumatic fever is when the strep gets into the heart, and that is very serious.
**Unknown:** So when you're talking about strep mobilizing and getting into the cardiovascular system, that is actually very common. So unfortunately, when I do my testing, I find that many people have had rheumatic carditis in their past, and now they have random heart palpitations, mitral valve prolapse, or they have a heart arrhythmia. And they get told this, and they're like, "Oh, well, we don't know why. You just have that." And it's actually because strep has gotten into their pericardium.
**Unknown:** So these infections are not uncommon. They are so common. But it's more so the question we need to ask is why are some of, some people walking around with these infections that are totally benign, no symptoms, functioning fine, and why are some people having such a significant immune reaction? So again, I want you to understand this because I don't want you to sit here and think, "Oh my gosh, I need to go to a Lyme literate doctor.
**Unknown:** This sounds like me," and then you get put on these high, high dose antibiotics, and you hope for the best. Because I had Lyme in my system, and I technically, I had some, um, heart flutters, but I didn't ever develop lupus. I didn't ever have joint pain. I was never bedridden because my immune system was functioning optimally to, to deal with it.
**Unknown:** So it's why is your immune system reacting so poorly? Is it because of chemical toxicity? Is it because you're mentally and emotionally stressed out? Is it because you don't sleep?
**Unknown:** Is it because you hate your job? Is it because of all of these other reasons? You have to dig deeper than just saying, "I have Lyme disease, and that's why I have lupus, and I'm just gonna take antibiotics and call it a day." It's more to it because, unfortunately, many of the people that I work with went down that road of going on a killing spree and trying to kill, kill, kill all of these infections or bind the mold or kill the strep, and they didn't get better because there were more pieces to the puzzle. So it's very, very significant to understand that it's not just about the infection.
**Unknown:** It's also about why is your immune system reacting so poorly. It's impossible for you to know is there, you know, is your connective tissue compromised because you have mold toxicity? Is it compromised because you potentially have some type of spirochete infection? You will never know these things unless you do better testing, and you also have a physician who's piecing the puzzle together for you.
**Unknown:** And we need to stop accepting symptoms as our new normal or just make peace with, "Oh, I have lupus, and I just have to manage this for the rest of my life," because this is not about bad genes or bad family history. This is about your immune system is being triggered by something that someone didn't figure out yet. So this was a really, um, interesting patient, and for those of you that are familiar with one of my mentors, Dr. Klinghardt, um, this is something that's honestly being uncovered more in the past two years is, uh, this conversation about very specific viruses that compromise the immune system.
**Unknown:** So for those of you that are here that have been down the road of functional medicine, integrative medicine, and you've been trying that route for your autoimmune condition, and you're still not getting better, there is a piece of the puzzle that has not necessarily been acknowledged, um, because this is new research and new information. So this specific patient, she came to us, um, I guess about a year ago.And she came in, she's about, uh, forty-eight years old. Um, she had a ten-year history of lupus, and she was managing her lupus with Plaquenil, which is an immunosuppressive drug. So we worked with her, and she actually did quite well.
**Unknown:** But I just felt there were so many ups and downs. She would do so well, and then all of a sudden she would have a flare and take steps backwards. And then she would do really well, and then she would take steps backwards. And for me, I know one of my personal values in my health, which I carry over into how I practice as a physician, is I wanna create sustainable changes.
**Unknown:** I don't want to create a dynamic that my patients have to see me forever and ever and ever because all we're doing is managing their symptoms. My goal is to help my patients resolve the root cause of everything. So with that being said, these ups and downs just kept me questioning like, "What am I missing? What am I missing?" And I went to a conference with one of my mentors, Dr.
**Unknown:** Klinghardt, and he was talking about some of the new research in relation to retroviruses. So what's interesting about these retroviruses is that one of the known retroviruses is HIV, um, which we all know as being the most immunosuppressive virus that exists, that usually is, you know, fatal to many people. And I'm not saying that this woman had HIV, but she had something called a retrovirus, which is in the same family. And the thing to understand about this, like, this was the most fascinating part to me, is that retroviruses have been part of all of our DNA for thousands of years.
**Unknown:** But most of the time they have been silenced. So when they become active because of chemical, environmental, emotional stress, then they can become very compromising to the immune system and be a trigger for autoimmune conditions. So my question was is, "Well, if these viruses are so harmful to our immune system, why, why are they part of our DNA?" So what came to light is that when females specifically get pregnant, you would question, okay, if a female is pregnant and she is essentially growing another human that is foreign to her body, why wouldn't her immune system attack the baby? So one of the reasons is because one of these retroviruses becomes activated during pregnancy to shut down the part of your immune system that would attack the baby.
**Unknown:** Like, how freaking crazy is that? Like, that is so crazy to me. That is so freaking fascinating. I'm always so fascinated by the body the more and more that I learn and how amazing and complex that it is.
**Unknown:** So the point of me telling you this is that these retroviruses serve a purpose at certain times in our life. But because of all of the stress that our bodies are under with all of the Wi-Fi, the Bluetooth, the working long hours, burning the candle at both ends, comparison game on social media, living up to everybody's expectations, working in New York City and commuting and, and doing fifteen, sixteen-hour days, like, these things are activating these retroviruses, and these retroviruses are compromising our immune system, and they are not allowing us to bounce back from just a flu, or it's not allowing us to heal even with our efforts from these autoimmune conditions. So if you're the person who's tried everything and you've done so much and you've hit a million roadblocks, you might be dealing with a retrovirus. And there are very simple ways that you can test this to uncover is this part of the puzzle.
**Unknown:** So one of the biggest myths around autoimmune conditions and really just many avenues of, of health is that your testing is always accurate. Uh, for those of you that have been with me the, the full forty minutes, um, a positive ANA, I have run blood work one week apart. I've seen a positive ANA, and then I've seen a negative ANA. ANA is the primary marker that dictates, um, if you are potentially developing a autoimmune connective tissue disorder.
**Unknown:** The other thing that's really fascinating about this is if your ANA is positive and your doctor did the reflex test, then certain things that pop up will indicate is this scleroderma, is this Sjögren's, is this lupus? But what I find fascinating is I will run the blood work, and technically the markers will be for lupus, but then as I'm talking to the patient, they're like, "But I'm so stiff. I'm so stiff. I can't move.
**Unknown:** I can't bend my fingers. I'm in so much pain. It's so hard to get out of bed." And I use my, my in-house testing, and it reveals that they actually have scleroderma. So you can't always rely just on these blood work markers.
**Unknown:** You also have to consider what are the symptoms of the patient because your symptoms matter, and they do not deserve to be ignored. They a hundred percent are significant because there is limitations with any test that you use. I use five different types of technology with blood work, and I put that all together with your history to understand the bigger picture. I'm not sitting there relying on one test because that is what made me run into roadblocks with my patients in the past.And I have worked very hard to try to evolve my, my diagnostic process so that I can understand the root from day one and help put you on the right path as soon as possible.
**Unknown:** And the other thing too about this infectious disease testing is that if you have been with me the whole time, we talked about how these connective tissue disorders can be tied to strep. They can be tied to Lyme disease. They can be tied to syphilis even. So the infectious disease testing is only being done by infectious disease physicians.
**Unknown:** Nobody's going to an infectious disease doctor unless you have reoccurring fevers that nobody can figure out or if you have reoccurring diarrhea that's not going away. So a lot of times you're not being tested properly for these infectious diseases. And then in addition, if your doctor is, "Ooh, let's rule out Lyme disease", your traditional run-of-the-mill Lyme panel through LabCorp and Quest is a crap test. It's not a good test.
**Unknown:** So it's really a matter of knowing that not all of this testing is always going to give you the whole picture. When physicians are looking for Lyme, and if they're looking for it through a spinal tap, or they're even looking at... looking for it through a biopsy, they're always looking for the spirochetes. The spirochetes are squiggly things.
**Unknown:** So the thing about the squigglies is that they don't always look like that. So most of the time when you're looking at a biopsy or looking at a spinal tap, the spirochetes, they revert back in a bleb or a round body cyst. So when you're talking about Lyme, um, as a bacteria, it is a tricky, tricky, tricky bacteria. It is very hard to diagnose properly because it changes form depending on where it is in the body.
**Unknown:** It also hides and burrows itself. So again, it's just reiterating that not always is your testing going to be a hundred percent accurate. So I've kinda talked about this with the case study that I mentioned about the woman with her left hand. So when we're talking about these autoimmune conditions, I have found that emotional ties are so significant.
**Unknown:** But one of the fascinating things about the hands, because lupus, um, and scleroderma have a tendency to affect the hands pretty tremendously, and even rheumatoid arthritis. And one of the big ties to that is what are you holding onto? Is there something that you haven't been able to let go? Is there a bad job you're holding onto?
**Unknown:** Is there a relationship you're holding onto? Is there a grudge that you're holding? The gut, um, this was something really significant that came up not too long ago for me, and it was specifically, um, I was getting weird sensations in my thumb, which is tied to your large intestine, and I also had a rash on my thumb and my pointer finger. And it was only in that area.
**Unknown:** So when it comes to the thumb and the pointer finger, those are meridians, and those meridians are connected. It's the large intestine and the lung. So the lung is about grief, and the large intestine is about elimination. So, um, one of the, uh, Chinese medicine doctors that I was working with is he said, you know, "When you're dealing with a large intestine issue, a lot of times it's like, what are you not willing to eliminate out of your life?" And it was a very interesting or it was very significant to me at that time because I was going through a pretty significant transition personally and, um, there were things that I was really scared of letting go of or, or eliminating out of my life.
**Unknown:** There was a lot of fear around that, and there was also a little bit of grief around moving on from that. So it's just so fascinating that these things pop up at different times, but they can truly affect us from a physiological standpoint. Um, knees and ankles, I know that this is another really, really common area that gets affected when we're dealing with these autoimmune conditions. Um, knees and ankles has a lot of significance to, you know, what are you fearing moving forward from?
**Unknown:** Or why are you scared of taking that next step? Or what are you scared of walking away from? So it's a very, very interesting thing, and it's not about everybody needing, you know, deep emotional work or talk therapy. This is really just about, um, sometimes it's just acknowledgement, acknowledging that that piece is part of your health puzzle.
**Unknown:** Some of it is using methods like acupuncture or using, um, one of the things that we use that is, uh, is a Chinese medicine meridian-based technology. It's called a BioScan. And some of it has just been balancing out something called your chakras can help you lift the burden of some of these things that you're holding. So it's not, again, necessarily about therapy.
**Unknown:** It's just about acknowledgement and using different, um, methods that are congruent for your body to release these things. So this was specifically a patient. She presented with, I put quote, unquote, "thyroid issues", um, because she had a lot of symptoms that many women come to me with that are like, "Oh, it's my thyroid" or "It's my hormones." So she was very cold all the time. She had really cold hands and feet, technically had Raynaud's phenomenon, which is when your hands and feet have really poor circulation.
**Unknown:** Her hair was falling out. Um, and again, she was, like, dealing with, um, some varicose vein issues. Uh, she definitely knew that her circulatory system wasn't, um, working at its best. She was also dealing with some dizziness and some fainting occasionally, not all the time, just occasionally.
**Unknown:** So with all of this, it's very easy for us females to peg this as hormonal or thyroid related. But in reality, being cold, having varicose veins, being dizzyFainting and even hair falling out is all very circulatory. Because if your scalp is not getting proper blood supply, you're going to then have issues with your hair falling out. You might also have headaches or migraines or what you call sinus pressure, which is because your blood flow in and out of your head is not working optimally.
**Unknown:** So what I find so fascinating is that many women that come to me with their quote unquote hormonal issues, sometimes this ends up being tied back to an autoimmune connective tissue disorder like lupus, but it's affecting their connective tissue of their cardiovascular system. So this can cause all of these symptoms like the cold, um, you know, cold hands and feet, hair falling out, dizziness, et cetera. But more importantly, this creates a susceptibility for you to be at risk for a stroke or for an aneurysm. And so the really interesting thing about this is that I personally again, you don't know what you don't know.
**Unknown:** I was a ticking time bomb, and I ended up having a genetic condition called Takayasu's, um, which is actually has to do with the cardiovascular system. And what it does is it makes your connective tissue more susceptible in your aorta, which is the really big vessel that comes off your heart and goes down into your abdomen. Um, it makes it more susceptible to having, um, to tearing and having an aneurysm. So it was just very fascinating because I was having random heart palpitations.
**Unknown:** I was having random circulatory issues, um, cold hands and feet, like really, really cold feet when I slept. I had to wear socks when I was sleeping, even in the summer. So there were all of these things that were, again, my normal. They were no big deal to me.
**Unknown:** You know, it was just that's the way my body is. And using the technology that we use in-house, I was able to see that all of those things were, uh, being contributed to because of this genetic predisposition that I had. So I'm saying this to you not because now I'm doomed because that's my genetics. I just now know how to properly take care of my body in order to preserve that system.
**Unknown:** And one of the ways that I do that is making sure that I do cardiovascular activity like workouts. But I also make sure that I keep my lymphatic system very healthy because your lymph and your cardiovascular system work hand in hand. So if you're a person that doesn't sweat or you're constantly getting swollen glands, swollen, um, lymph or ingrown hairs in your armpits, um, if you're also feeling very puffy, very bloated, you have a lot of cellulite. Those are all signs that your lymphatic system is not working optimally.
**Unknown:** So it's very, very significant to, um, to be able to take these symptoms as not being your normal, but the fact that they potentially have a root cause. And these are things that you can work on to obviously prevent anything more serious in the future. So the biggest myth of them all is that autoimmunity is irreversible, and it has no known cause. So I think at this point you realize that there is going to be a cause, but more importantly is that when you understand the root, anything is possible.
**Unknown:** I have seen autoimmune markers stabilize. I have seen ANAs become negative and stay negative. And these are things that people never thought were possible. And again, it's not always just about the autoimmune condition or even the infections that are potentially correlated with it.
**Unknown:** It's about why is your immune system so reactive. Why is it not able to, to deal with the different, um, organisms that your body is, is fighting off? Like, why is it struggling so much? And this usually comes back to your body's inability to filter the bad stuff out because, uh, this is always something that I explain to my patients and they're like, "Holy crap, that makes a lot of sense." But we have-- Our bodies are designed to filter the bad stuff out.
**Unknown:** Our bodies are designed to deal with toxins, molds, infections, viruses, all of it. But the major systems that get rid of the bad stuff is tonsils, liver, spleen. How many people have fatty liver? How many people get-- have gut issues or have parts of their colon removed?
**Unknown:** How many people are missing an appendix? These are significant things. Like these are all of your immune system filtration organs. So instead of us acknowledging, well, why did this become compromised or why is this, is this organ so overloaded?
**Unknown:** We just remove them and say, "Oh, problem is solved." And it's not any of our faults. This is just what we're being told is like, you don't need an appendix. It's a useless organ. That's what I always find so fascinating when we say things are useless.
**Unknown:** I'm like, well, why would it be built into our body if it's completely u-useless and serves no purpose? So your appendix is like the primary filter of getting the bad stuff out of your gut. So if your appendix became an appendicitis and ruptured, that's why they say it's deadly if it ruptures because it pours bacteria into your bloodstream, and you could die from that. So your appendix very much serves a purpose.
**Unknown:** You can survive without it. But the bigger understanding is that if your appendix got to the point of an appendicitis, that means your gut is dealing with a boatload of issues. So the point is, is that if you haven't gathered this yetIs that very rarely do things manifest like the textbook. Very rarely is it, you just have lupus, and that's the end of the story.
**Unknown:** There is always going to be more to the story to understand why that developed in your body, why is your immune system being so triggered, and most importantly is if you don't match the textbook, how is your treatment going to match the textbook? It is impossible to think that you're going to get your life back by just shutting down your immune system and calling it a day. There is so much more to be evaluated that can help you truly get to the root cause. So some of you listening might be completely brand new to this whole idea of functional and integrative medicine, and maybe you're here just to learn a little bit more.
**Unknown:** And then there are some of you that have been down the road of functional medicine, and maybe you got some results and hit a plateau, maybe you got no results. The thing I want you to understand about this is that there is the conventional way of looking at the body, which is really based on looking at the chemistry through the blood work and then utilizing tools such as drugs and surgery. And then there's functional medicine that brings in a lot more elaborate testing which really helps you dig deeper to get to the root cause. But a lot of times, functional medicine is really relying on two major tools in the toolbox: diet and supplements.
**Unknown:** I used to practice that way, and I don't practice that way anymore because I hit plateaus with it, and I found that there were limitations. In addition to that, I didn't want to be on an elimination diet for the rest of my life, and it was very hard for me to advocate that for my patients because I didn't feel that that was really the way that it should be. I, I knew that there was more, I just didn't know it early on in practice. So I kept digging, digging, digging and evolving, and that brought me to integrative medicine.
**Unknown:** One of my mentors, Dr. Klinghardt, he said to me, "Don't call yourself integrative if all you do is diet and supplements." And our practice is called Integrative Wellness Group, and it has been since day one. So it really got me thinking and made me realize, okay, we need to, we need to bring more to the table. And this is what allows us to get results in a short amount of time is because not everybody just needs a supplement regimen.
**Unknown:** Not everybody needs to be on an elimination diet. Some people really just need talks. Some people just need to work through their, their emotional traumas, and they'll feel fine. Everybody is so, so different.
**Unknown:** And again, healthcare is about answers and solutions. I think that we forget that. I think we settle for just being told, "Oh, well, we finally figured it out. It's lupus.
**Unknown:** Here's your drug. Call it a day." And it's really about, well, why? Why do I have this? Where did this come from?
**Unknown:** How did it, how did it develop? Like, what can I do, like, of-- with my lifestyle? What can I do beyond just taking a pill? And we deserve those answers, and we deserve to know what we can do to help ourselves.
**Unknown:** So I really, you know, want you guys to know that this is one of my biggest passions is getting on here and helping you to understand more about these autoimmune conditions and help you to get clarity on things that maybe you've never heard before. And this is truly more of an educational experience, but when you're able to get your testing and know what's going on in your body, that's when this becomes a breakthrough experience because it just allows everything to line up and, and for you to sit back and be like, "Holy crap, that makes so much sense, and I finally feel empowered and like I have some level of control over my own health." 'Cause I know that being diagnosed with these autoimmune conditions, saying there's no cure and, you know, we don't know why, it's, it's very, very disempowering. But I promise you, there is always, always a root cause, and it-- there is always going to be a solution once you know that root cause. So definitely check out our website, um, if you're looking for more information.
**Unknown:** If you want to hear any of our podcasts specifically about lupus or Lyme or the connection between the two or scleroderma or other, uh, connective tissue disorders, definitely check us out because we have tons and tons of podcasts that I've done about all different topics. Um, and I really hope you enjoyed this, uh, tonight. But, um, please join us and share this, uh, with your friends and family because it's so important for people to get access to this information. So I thank you guys, and, um, I hope to see you next week.
**Unknown:** We thank you for being a listener and subscriber to Integrative Wellness Radio. If you're looking to learn more about Integrative Wellness Group as well as Dr. Nick or Dr. Nicole, you can check out integrativewellnessgroup.com.
**Unknown:** All night, no sleep. 'Cause I feel like I'm always dreaming. Wide awake, that's okay
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About Integrative You Radio
Integrative You Radio is a root cause medicine and integrative medicine podcast hosted by Dr. Nicole Rivera and Dr. Nick Carruthers — two integrative doctors who build personalized wellness protocols from your DNA, minerals, hormones, gut, and nervous system rather than from a population template. Looking for an integrative doctor who reads your labs together instead of in isolation? This is the show.
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