Is your professional life making you sick?
Episode 154
Managing your physical and mental well-being as well as a business can be a painstaking thing. In a collab last week, Dr. Nicole was hosted by Phil Rose of "Sparks By Ignium". In this episode, Phil speaks to the Doctor to help us better navigate through building your business and sustaining a perfect balance between your health and your business. Dr. Nicole shares some of the tips she has used along with her husband to diagnose and cure’ health and business issues in entrepreneurs. Tune in to the whole episode! Interested in learning more about Dr. Nick & Dr. Nicole’s courses, memberships, or private work? Learn more at Integrative You . Have a quick question, Would you like to schedule a call, or just want to say hi? Text us at 732.913.0009. Our mission to innovate humans & Healthcare does NOT start and stop with us! This is why we are also dedicated to helping other practitioners in evolving healthcare too! If you are a healthcare leader and are looking to up-level your clinical + business excellence Learn more about our course membership: Limitless Healthprenuer and start boldly disrupting this industry! Resources: Integrative Growth Institute: https://integrativewellnessgroup.com Learn more about Ignium Consulting: https://www.igniumconsult.com Listen to Sparks By Ignium: https://sparksbyignium.transistor.fm/episodes
Topics: business, unknown, nicole, health, phil, ignium, learn, running
Key takeaways from this episode
- ## Is Your Professional Life Making You Sick?
- Understand the connection between professional stress and physical/mental health.
- Gain insights into balancing business growth with personal well-being.
- Learn practical tips from entrepreneurs on diagnosing and curing health-related business issues.
- Explore strategies for sustaining energy and preventing burnout.
Pull quotes
**Unknown:** We all think about our health, but sometimes we put it to the back of our mind when we're running our businesses.
We've all seen it, the stressed executive, the stressed founder trying to raise money, running around madly trying to get their business running.
In this next podcast with Dr. **Unknown:** Nicole Rivera, we delve into some of the things that she deals to help people get balance and integrate body and business.
Transcript
**Unknown:** We all think about our health, but sometimes we put it to the back of our mind when we're running our businesses. We've all seen it, the stressed executive, the stressed founder trying to raise money, running around madly trying to get their business running. But what is the implication of that on us longer term? In this next podcast with Dr.
**Unknown:** Nicole Rivera, we delve into some of the things that she deals to help people get balance and integrate body and business. It's been a key thing for me over the last 10 years as I look to how do I manage my business whilst maintaining my family life and my stress levels to help me feel integrated to what I do. I do a lot of running. I do a lot of swimming.
**Unknown:** I spend time on my body as well to look at, how do I get the best out of myself? But I learned so much from Dr. Nicole in this podcast, and I'm sure you will too. We've agreed to do a second podcast, which will come out later, but I think in this first one, just listen out for some of the things she says around what you can do to really get a grip on some of the work you do, and how working with a coach for her helped her dig herself out of burnout in the first place.
**Unknown:** As always, please feel free to pass this podcast on to anybody you know who would benefit from it. The more people we can get to understand that actually building a business with someone alongside you gets you there faster and better and helps you manage your health the better. So please do that for us. But also, please leave us a review because that's one of the ways it gets us there.
**Unknown:** We can't guarantee to get the message out to everybody, but the more people that hear it, the better. So please pass it on, let us know what you think. Feel, feel free to send me a- an email to phil@igniumconsult.com and let me know your thoughts. But most importantly, enjoy the show.
**Unknown:** Take action. Good luck. Have fun. Good morning, good afternoon, good day, wherever you are.
**Unknown:** This is Phil Rose, and this is the Sparked by Ignium podcast. And today I'm delighted to be joined by Dr. Nicole Rivera. I've known Dr.
**Unknown:** Nicole for about 18 months now through our journey with scaling up. Uh, Dr. Nicole describes herself as an integrative physician and now a business coach, which I think is a bit of a conundrum. So I want to find out a bit about what that means to start with.
**Unknown:** So before we start, what does that mean? So I am an integrative practitioner, and v- a lot of people don't... I- I always say, I'm like, "I know you don't know what that means." Yeah. So that's, that's a story in itself.
**Unknown:** But primarily I started my... Uh, I started practicing in the world of, uh, you know, wellness 10 years ago. Mm. And I found that there was a lot of shortcomings.
**Unknown:** Uh, and I also found that really most of medicine, at least here in the US, is run by pharmaceuticals. Mm. And I knew that there had to be other options. So first and foremost is I had many people that came to me saying, "I feel like crap, but my blood work looks good according-" Yeah ...
**Unknown:** to my phys- my practitioner or my physician. I don't know what's going on. So I got into the world of functional medicine. Okay.
**Unknown:** Which we talked about just before. Yeah. And what I found with functional medicine is it leveraged really great testing to get down to the bottom of what was going on with the person. But the reason I then turned to integrative medicine was because- Mm ...
**Unknown:** I was like, "Okay, I have all this great information," but now the tools for the healing process in the functional medicine world was diet and supplements. Yeah, yeah. And that only gets you so far. So I dove into, like, what else is out there in order to really help these people to not necessarily just get better, but to stay better, to be resilient so that they're not scared that they're gonna go backwards once they- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** you know, go out for a glass of wine again. That's interesting. So is that... So, so this, this thing about moving yourself from just the diet and supplements to the next stage, which is that integrating it into your life in that sense.
**Unknown:** 100%. And that was an evolution too, and that's where this business coaching comes in. Yeah. So, you know, for us, we were, we were entrepreneurs.
**Unknown:** You know, I was the CEO of my company. Mm. If I knew it or I didn't in the beginning. Yeah, yeah.
**Unknown:** As always. You know, as practitioners, you, you open a business, but you don't realize that you really need someone to run the business. You think that you can work in the business- Mm ... and still run it, and as you grow, that it doesn't work that way.
**Unknown:** Yeah. So that was a huge learning curve, so I decided to... Well, first, we created this massive integrated facility that was 6,000 square feet that had- Yeah ... everything from neurological services to physical services, chiropractic, rehab.
**Unknown:** We had a whole detox spa attached to our facility. So we were really trying to help people- Right ... in all different avenues. Mm, mm.
**Unknown:** And customize it to them according to their DNA. Ah, fantastic. So it was an amazing business. It is an amazing business.
**Unknown:** Yeah. And it grew, and we had 25 employees at our max. Okay. And a- a- after we had about eight employees, that's when things really started to change.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, "Whoa, this is a whole new beast. We need an HR person.
**Unknown:** You know, we need someone, a floor manager." Yeah. You know, we need individuals that can take things off of our plate and really help us to run this business appropriately. So I just felt like I was floundering, and I always say in my life, I like to learn things the hard way. So I don't...
**Unknown:** I guess I probably did this all intentionally, but there were just so many hardships and obstacles because we didn't really have anyone running the business appropriately, and we were so busy working with the patients that, you know, it was cr- a shit show, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh- And, and often you hear that story so often, don't we?
**Unknown:** Where people, and especially when you, right, you said, you know, you get to eight employees and above and it changes. A- and it does become tough work actually. It's, so, so... And especially where you're trying to look after people's health.
**Unknown:** Yeah. So what... You know, I, I asked the, the question here in a case, what was the impact on you? So, you know, there...
**Unknown:** I, I was running... When I look back, I was running on just chaotic adrenaline. Mm. Like, I was just like, "Here, there, this, that." Like, when people, like, talk about ADD, I laugh.
**Unknown:** I see videos on TikTok nowadays of, like, people that have ADD and how their brain goes everywhere. I'm like, "Oh, my God. That was me tenfold my whole life." Just running, running, running. And it was just, just living in pure chaos, and functioning in it.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Almost weirdly maybe thriving in it. And it just, it gets to the point that you burn out. You hear that all the time- Mm ...
**Unknown:** with entrepreneurs and, and busy professionals is, is burnout. Yeah. And I actually did a survey once. I did it on social media.
**Unknown:** Um, I did it on LinkedIn. And I asked, like, "What's the topic that entrepreneurs wanna hear about?" 'Cause I have a podcast as well. And everyone... 'Cause I gave five choices, and everyone voted burnout.
**Unknown:** And I was like- Wow ... and we had about 500 people send in- Wow ... for the survey. I was like, "Wow, that is-" That's amazing ...
**Unknown:** "so interesting." And it is, it is a big thing, isn't it? Because as you say, as you're growing a business, when you're a, when you're a, a one-person business it's, it's tough, but you know, you limit yourself and you can manage it the way you want to do it. But as you grow, you've then got those other mouths to feed, you've got those other people to deal with, and you've got other customer demands. So you- Well, you grow your team to delegate- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** but then you're dealing with people. You're dealing with- Yeah ... people that have needs, that it's human behavior. You know, this person wants to grow, this person wants to stay comfortable.
**Unknown:** You know, this person doesn't like quick changes, this person thrives on quick changes. You know, you're dealing with this dynamic of managing people, which is a full-time job in itself. Yeah, yeah. And actually, that, that's one of the nubs of it, isn't it?
**Unknown:** Be- before we go back into this, I, I just want to just clarify something, okay? So just tell me a bit more about your business, so be- that, that journey. 'Cause obviously you started the business. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** There's two... There were two of you in the business when you started it. I'm assuming you and Nick were in it, Nick being your husband- Yes ... in the business to start with.
**Unknown:** Tell me about that journey that you went on in that case. You know, going through eight employees to, to 25. 'Cause I think just to set a bit of foundation for this story would be useful. Yeah.
**Unknown:** So we, so we started in about 1,000 square feet, and it was Nick and myself. I was literally working with people and running up and answering the phones. I was doing the marketing, I built the website. It, you know, I designed the business cards.
**Unknown:** Just- Yeah ... craziness. Yeah. And then, you know, we hired some admin staff, and then we hired some more practitioners.
**Unknown:** And we were functioning pretty well. There were six of us, but it was very, like, close-knit, almost family dynamic. Mm. The space was small, so, you know, communication was easier.
**Unknown:** Yeah. And then we moved to a bigger facility. Yeah. So we went to close to 4,000 square feet, and then that brought, obviously brought in more employees, but it brought in just the need for different systems because the space was so big, and you don't...
**Unknown:** You can't just yell to the front desk anymore- Yeah, yeah ... saying, "Hey, give this person this supplement on their way out." So it was just a very interesting transition. But then we also started to hire some practitioners, and they were inquiring about all the HR stuff, all, you know, the PTO, the this, the that. And it's like when you don't have solid systems in place, people pick it apart.
**Unknown:** That's why- Yeah ... corporate runs the way that corporate does, is because they make it so it's so ironclad- Yeah ... that there's no pulling it apart, there's no questioning it, there's no challenging it. It's just these are the policies.
**Unknown:** Small business owners learn this the hard way, unfortunately. Yeah. Too right. Too right.
**Unknown:** Yeah. And so we started growing, and I hit the worst burnout ever, to the point that I was, like, ready to close up shop. Yeah. And, and I mentioned to you, mentioned this to you earlier when we were chatting, and I said there are...
**Unknown:** I, I struggle as a coach because I, as a practitioner, have, have been a consultant. You know- Yeah. Yeah ... people came to me to say, "What do I do about my health?" And I...
**Unknown:** That's what I provided for them, "This is what you do." And but at the same time, when I worked with business coaches, I was always thinking, like, "I am not the first person to run a business, so just tell me what to do and I'll do it." Yeah. Yeah. Tell me what to do, and I will do it. Because, you know, this marketing campaign or getting new patients or whatever it is, like, I am not re- like, I don't wanna recreate the wheel, and there is clearly a proven system out there.
**Unknown:** Yeah. So I personally wanted to have some type of consulting, and I never found it. And then I found Scaling Up. Yeah.
**Unknown:** Interesting. And Scaling Up just, I finally read it, I read the book, and I'm like, "This makes sense." Because it was also... I'm a little old-fashioned, even though I am young. Okay.
**Unknown:** I, like, I honestly, like, hate technology. I, I wanna use it as little as possible. Yeah. And I embrace it because it does make running a business easier.
**Unknown:** But at the same time, I don't wanna, like, live on my phone. I don't wanna... You know, I don't wanna be connected all the time. And when I was reading this book...
**Unknown:** Well, I should say the first book I ever read in business was Built to Last. Yeah. Great book. And I thought that really just hit home for me, because it wasn't about necessarily beating out your competition.
**Unknown:** Like, it was about how do you create a business that's gonna leave a legacy? Yeah. And that was really sat well with me. Because when I was in school, there were a lot of coaching companies that came in that were very, um, slimy.
**Unknown:** They didn't have much- Yeah ... integrity. And I was like, "There has to be a better way to run business. Like, why don't you just be really good at what you do and actually care?" You know?
**Unknown:** Like, why don't, why don't we start there? And, and it's interesting. Because I think what Jim Collins talks about in Built to Last is very much around, you know, how do you create that sustainable infrastructure to enable you to grow? Yeah.
**Unknown:** And, and it's interesting- Yeah. And how do you serve? How do you serve in whatever way? Maybe you serve through selling pencils.
**Unknown:** But, you know, you're... It doesn't... You don't have to be in a position of being a doctor. Yeah.
**Unknown:** It's just how are you serving to make humanity better in whatever-... avenue of business that you're in. Yeah. I love that- And- ...
**Unknown:** because obviously one of the things that I- I work on a lot is very much around the purpose of business as well. Yeah. Now, how do you get clear about your purpose and prosperity, and how do you balance the two? Yep.
**Unknown:** So when I talk when, when I talk business output Built to Last, it's very much around you. Create that sustainable infrastructure, but also have a purpose above and beyond making money. We'll come back to that later on, but I think that's one of the key things there. That's the sustainability side of it for me.
**Unknown:** Um, so sorry, carry on about that journey, okay. 100%. So, so you've got the system, you read, you read Built to Last, you read Scaling Up, you realized something had to change. Yeah.
**Unknown:** So, so the, uh, I, I- Yeah, so I, I read Scaling Up and it was just life-changing because- Yeah ... I was just like, "This makes so much sense that I h- I don't have a strong foundation in my business." Mm-hmm. I just realized I didn't have a strong foundation, and when I went through the Rockefeller checklist- Yeah ... and you're just like, "Wow.
**Unknown:** Okay. Yeah. No, we're not, we're not-" Yeah, not doing that ... "meeting any of this." Yeah.
**Unknown:** And- A- and that's a, that's a key bit, isn't it? Because that's gives you an ideal thing to say, "Okay, this is how other people have done it." Yeah. "Why aren't we doing it as well?" Yeah. And what's probably the most interesting is most people get into business to make money.
**Unknown:** Mm. You know, and then there's the other people that get into business because they wanna fulfill their purpose and they wanna make a difference. And then obviously there's some people that maybe had mentorship or came from a long line of business owners and they were able to go in with both in mind. And, you know, our business was really set on a foundation of, I wanna help people.
**Unknown:** Yeah. And in my mind, I, you know, we did it at really any cost. Okay. And that cost was buying really expensive medical equipment that was, I, you know, we're big on health and wellness.
**Unknown:** Like, the hand soap in my bathrooms at my office was $36 because it was organic, non-toxic. And I felt that that was necessary because we need to walk our talk. Yeah. Um, but then it gets to a point that you have accountants that are sitting there telling you, you know, "Your business is not profitable." Yeah.
**Unknown:** Totally agree. And you, you look at that and you feel so defeated, and then you realize, "I'm killing myself on a day-to-day basis, and, you know, I don't really have much to show for it." Mm-hmm. And that was something that was really, really eye-opening for us, is that we needed to make a change. And Scaling Up was something that came into our lives, and we just dove in.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Yeah. And we started to... I literally started to implement immediately, and we started to see the team change.
**Unknown:** Wow. Okay. We started the team... The team started to understand what was in our heads.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Yeah. Like, what was the actual vision? What were we trying to accomplish?
**Unknown:** How could they feel part of that growth and development? 'Cause people wanna feel relevant. Mm. Yeah.
**Unknown:** They don't wanna just come in and do the same crap every day. Yeah. Yeah. They wanna know, like, w- am I, am I doing something to make a difference for my CEO?
**Unknown:** Am I doing something to make a difference for the customers we serve? Am I doing something to make a difference on the world? Like, what am I, you know, what am I getting up to do this every day? Some, you know, if you have a business that people are just coming to collect a paycheck, then, you know- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** you're gonna have turnover, which costs you money and, you know, all the other things that go along with that. Yeah. Yeah. And we see more of that post-pandemic where people are, you know, we talk about the great resignation, but that's because they're not engaged in what they're doing.
**Unknown:** Yep. So I think there's some big things there. So, so you've got a, you've got a business, you've read Scaling Up, you've, you've grown the business at this stage. You've, you've, you're, you're, you're creaking at the seams and you lead to this burnout.
**Unknown:** You discover the world of, hey, someone else might have done this before. Yeah. I don't have to reinvent the wheel. Yeah.
**Unknown:** You implement it in your business. So, so your business at that stage, what, what was the thing that happened in the bus- you talk about the staff feeling more, um, engaged. You talked about them feeling part of the change that's coming on. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** They understood the visions in your head. Tell me about the next piece of that journey, because that first piece is, you know, that's the, the, the road to burnout. Then you're on a different journey in that case. Tell me about that next step, because I think this is the interesting piece as well.
**Unknown:** Oh, this is gonna take a good turn right now. This is, like, the juiciness of where I am right now. Excuse me. Well, I guess, like, right in the middle of that, um- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** I started teaching integrative medicine. Okay. Uh, so I created, like, a whole course on integrative medicine approaches to Lyme disease, mold toxicity, autoimmune issues, gut issues, retroviruses, you name it. So I created a year-long course, and then I had some students that went through and they're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't know how to run my business.
**Unknown:** How can you help? 'Cause I can see that you clearly have a thriving business." Mm. Okay. And I was just like, "Oh, okay.
**Unknown:** Well, I guess I'm gonna be a business coach now." But what I loved about Scaling Up, well, well, first is I didn't necessarily want to give anyone business advice based off of my business- Mm-hmm ... because that's me making the assumption that they have the same personal and professional goals that I do. Okay. And chances are they don't.
**Unknown:** And I loved Scaling Up because you are going in, you're asking those questions. You're asking questions around- Mm ... you know, what is your vision? What are your goals?
**Unknown:** What is your BHAG? And then breaking that down from there. Yeah. Yeah.
**Unknown:** So I found that that ended up being very valuable to the individuals that I was working with on the teaching side, which is what I call my growth institute. Okay. So that was a really... That was really exciting because I absolutely love teaching in general, so teaching the integrative medicine and then also teaching the business side was what I realized lit me up the most.
**Unknown:** Nice. Nice. And then, you know, then I started thinking about, what if I work with less patients- Yeah ... and I start doing more of this work?
**Unknown:** Yeah. And that was a really scary thought because that was my identity, essentially. Yeah. 'Cause you'd been in- And- ...
**Unknown:** you'd been in that physician role effectively doing, doing what you do. Yeah. And now you're transitioning into a coaching role rather than just doing what you've been trained to do. Yeah.
**Unknown:** It was- Yeah ... it, it was just... And I'm still even, I would say I'm struggling a little bit with that identity piece too, because-As things have progressed, I kept getting pulled back into the integrative medicine business. Mm.
**Unknown:** And it's because of not just... It wasn't really the patients, it was more the business, the b- Okay ... structure of the business. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And, uh, it was honestly when I went on maternity, paternity leave, uh, both my husband and I, we set up a lot of different, um, systems according to scaling up. Yeah. And the business definitely has been running for the past two years better than it ever has. Wow.
**Unknown:** But when we stepped out, we realized how much of the business really ran on us. Yeah. And how we were the gatekeepers of the culture. Yeah, that's interesting.
**Unknown:** And this is something that has been a huge learning for how I show up for my, uh, for my coaching because... Perfect example, I had a strategy call with a company the other day. Yeah. And he said that his major goal is to get the company to a place that it runs so seamlessly that him and his wife can go to Wyoming and pretty much manage the business remotely.
**Unknown:** Interesting. And- Okay ... you know, asking more questions about who's in the pipeline for that, you know, how many employees do you have? Do you have someone who's going to uphold that culture and vision?
**Unknown:** And, you know, what I explained to him, I go, "The way that you're describing how you interact with your team is that you are the foundation for the culture." Yeah. "You're the foundation for the rules of the game and the boundaries." Yeah. Because he was like a very like see it, say it kinda guy. You know, made sure that, um, everything was out on the table, really clear communication.
**Unknown:** I go, "When you leave-" Mm-hmm ... "if you don't have y- the replacement that you train in the values of your company, you're gonna be moving back from Wyoming because-" Yeah ... "your business is gonna crumble." Yeah. It's all reliant on you if you're not careful.
**Unknown:** And that's, and, and- Exactly ... it's interesting you said that you realized you were the gatekeepers of that culture, and that's exactly what this business owner was facing as well. You can't- Yeah ... just move out of town and expect the business to run unless you've let the DNA of the business transform from you into the whole business.
**Unknown:** Yeah. And I think that's really key. But it's also, I think at the same time when you're in business... And I, I wanna say this in this podcast, because I know that this is the case for people, is- Mm ...
**Unknown:** when you are in business for 10 years and then you find something like scaling up- Yeah ... and then you're posed with those questions of do you have the right people in the right seats doing things right? And you have people that have been with you through the really, really hard times- Yeah ... that were very loyal to you, or you have family in your business, or you have friends in your business.
**Unknown:** Like, it gets- Mm ... very difficult to make the decisions that are right for you and make the decisions that are right for your business. Yeah. Yeah.
**Unknown:** Especially if you don't have a coach. 'Cause I didn't have a coach. Okay. Interesting.
**Unknown:** I was the coach for my business. Wow. Okay. So you were coaching yourself and running the business at the time.
**Unknown:** You had the, you had the manual- Yes ... the Scaling Up book, and you had read- Yeah ... other books as well, and you're now trying to- Yeah ... develop a business and, and run the business at the same time.
**Unknown:** And work in the business. Okay. Yeah. How did that work out?
**Unknown:** Ooh, yeah. So, yes, it's not... It doesn't... It's not a g- it's not a good thing.
**Unknown:** It's not a good combo. Yeah, yeah. Um, but it was very difficult for me to s- like, I did let some people go. Mm, okay.
**Unknown:** And we were able to put, you know, really try to create that A player team. But there were things that I wasn't willing to see, I think at that time. Yeah. And there were hard decisions that I wasn't willing to make.
**Unknown:** Okay. And then I was forced to make those decisions after going on maternity leave- Mm ... and, you know, seeing different things unfold. And don't get me wrong- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** I could have went in and fixed it and... But I would've been the hamster on the wheel- Yeah, yeah ... that this business can't run without me, and that... And, uh, the way I classified it is I am in a toxic relationship with my business.
**Unknown:** With the business itself. And actually that's one- With the business itself ... of the biggest things you see, isn't it? When, when you get into that relationship there, actually you get stuck in a, stuck in a rut effectively.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's a tough journey, isn't it? You've gone from in a business where you could feel the burnout coming.
**Unknown:** You've, you've grown it to a scale. You've got a number of b- people reliant on you, mouths to feed. Mm-hmm. You've then hit a brick wall in some ways, realized you've gotta do something different, picked up the book, tried to implement it, realized actually doing it and running the business is tough.
**Unknown:** A- a- and in some ways, the bit I'm hearing there is, you know, not having a coach is, is one of the key things there for you. Because actually nobody was there to hold you to account or to ask the difficult questions, and also to open up your mind. Or open my eyes to things that I... It's not, I w- I wanna see things that I wasn't willing to see.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Okay. 'Cause you're blinded to, or 'cause you're just blinkered in doing what you've always done. Yeah.
**Unknown:** Stick your fingers in the ears and just hope everything's all right. I, 'cause right now I'm coaching a company that is so similar to the, to my integrated medicine company, and I'm just like- Yeah ... this, this, nope, that's not... Like, and I'm just...
**Unknown:** And my husband's like, "It's so interesting how you just see things so clear for this company." Mm-hmm. "And you're able to help them, and you, you had it in you, but you couldn't do it for your own business 'cause of the emotional attachments." Yeah, that's interesting. So here's a point, actually. This, so, so your husband Nick is not a, not a Scaling Up coach.
**Unknown:** Mm. But you've, you've transitioned from being the consultant, the physician, where people come to you for advice on their, their body, their health. Mm-hmm. You've then turned into running as a Scaling Up coach- Mm ...
**Unknown:** and a coach helping people. How do you balance that consultant versus coaching? 'Cause you know, we talked about this just now, and it's sometimes tough. So how do you get- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** that in your own business and helping others when you've got two ways of doing it? Yeah, it's, it's interesting because I find that my husband brings so much of the coaching to the table. Okay. And because he has studied with Dr.
**Unknown:** Demartini- Mm-hmm ... so he has... He's a facilitator in human behavior. And so we end up working together in, in different ways.
**Unknown:** So an example is we, uh, we took a company a couple weeks ago through what we call the CEO boot camp, um- Okay ... which is based on metronomics. And, you know, we're- I'm going through with the company and we're f- you know, narrowing down the big, hairy, audacious goal, the BHAG. And then we're getting into, you know, what are we focused on?
**Unknown:** What's our three-year goal? What's our one-year goal? What's our quarterly goals? And we're mapping all of these things out, and they're...
**Unknown:** I'm probing better questions from a coaching perspective- Yeah ... because, uh, an example was this, this, uh, company specifically is an integrative medicine company, and, uh, the owner's goal was to have multiple facilities, multiple integrative medicine facilities, so multiple private practices. Okay. But then also wants to have a retreat center, uh, that has regenerative farming, and then wants to grow that to have multiple locations.
**Unknown:** Okay. And I was like, "That's amazing. Like, that's really going to change the world." Yeah. "So who's going to run...
**Unknown:** Who's gonna be the CEO of the private practice, practices?" Yeah. And he's like, "Oh. Well, me." I was like, "Okay. So then who's gonna be the CEO of the retreat regenerative farming centers?" Yeah.
**Unknown:** Presume that as well, yeah. "Oh. Well, me." And I was like, "Okay. Well, you know, let me just give you a little bit of a reality check on what that, what that looks like." Yeah.
**Unknown:** You know, running, being a CEO of a company that has multiple locations, you know, these are the... This is what the day-to-day looks like for that, and this is what the day-to-day would look like if you have another company with multiple locations, so- Yeah ... you, you know, we have to really make sure that that's, that's what you wanna do, 'cause this is going to be, take up a large portion of your time." Yeah. Yeah.
**Unknown:** "And you then told me you have all these other personal goals." So then he kind of panicked. And he was just like, "My BHAG, I need to get it right, and I can't, I can't do the second part of our, our boot camp until I, like, get it right, and it has to be perfect." So then I, like, recruited my husband in. I was like, "All right." That's how consultation- "You gotta come in because this guy's freaking out, and he's having a little bit of, like, analysis paralysis." Yeah, yeah. So he went through, and they broke down his personal values- Okay ...
**Unknown:** and then connected his personal values to his professional goals. And then they were able to narrow down that he actually only wanted the retreat center for himself. He wanted that to escape- Yeah ... and for that to be his escape to regenerate himself- Yeah.
**Unknown:** Okay ... because of all of the energy that he puts into the private practice. Wow. So he's actually trying to do something on his own basis, but actually maybe wasn't thinking of it from an, his own business perspective.
**Unknown:** It's more about his own health perspective is what I'm hearing. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, okay. So it was just such an amazing aha that came- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** out of what my husband was doing. And then we, you know, got back into now mapping out, you know, the BHAG and then mapping out all of the different tools that we use with scaling up and metronomics. Yeah. So then we were able to successfully dive into the three-year goal, the one-year goal, the quarterly goals, the core values of the company.
**Unknown:** And then he f- and he felt so much more confident about it now that he had that clarity. Yeah, I love it. And he knew- Love it ... I have all these great goals, but I'm, I'm still putting my personal values at the forefront- Mm-hmm ...
**Unknown:** so he didn't lose his life by having all of these amazing, like- Yeah ... professional goals. Yeah. So, so, so that's a good segue into something I wanted to talk to you about then, about losing your life, because I think this is a thing that a lot of business owners forget when they're trying to balance w- life and business.
**Unknown:** Uh, um, and, you know, before we talked on, on air here, we talked about, you know, this word that in the past people have talked about balancing life, work, work/life balance. Balancing life outside of work with balancing life in work, and, and a lot of people get it wrong. They don't get that together. A- and I brought up this phrase that a lot of people talk about integrating work and life now.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. And especially during the, the last two years with the pandemic, people have been working from home all over the world, trying to balance work life where they've been walking, you know, 15 feet to get to their office. They've got family at home. They've got to deal with those other things.
**Unknown:** So it is about integrating. I, I'd love to just delve into this from a point of view of integrative wellness, I think- Mm-hmm ... in terms of getting that balance. So, so can we switch tack and just think about that?
**Unknown:** Because I think this is a fundamental piece. Business owners are human beings, as far as I know. And therefore, we need to help them- As far as I know. Yeah.
**Unknown:** Uh, yeah, with, you know, most of us are. No. Therefore, they've got a right to be healthy. Yeah.
**Unknown:** So but we all in the past, in different ways, have put other things first, and it's created stress in the body. Can we just delve into that a little bit to find out what's going on- Yeah ... with people, and what does integrative medicine and in- integrative health really mean? Yeah.
**Unknown:** So we were talking earlier, and I was saying that I think that there's, there's a misconception as to what- Mm ... wellness looks like, and a lot of individuals classify, you know, I'm, I'm being well by going to the gym and, you know, maybe getting a monthly massage. And there's nothing right or wrong about either one. It's more so that there's so much more out there than people realize.
**Unknown:** Mm. But first and foremost is we... You know, and I find that the work that I've done in integrative medicine is so unbelievably relevant to business- Okay ... and that they overlap so much.
**Unknown:** So, like, a perfect example is, is if you are having an issue in your business-And maybe it's a people issue. Okay. Or maybe you think it's a people issue. And then you have someone, a coach come in and maybe audit some things or ask better questions and look at things, and take it through, like, a proper diagnostic process- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** then you might realize that it has nothing to do with the people, but the people are always confused because they are not clear on strategy. Okay. Or the same thing is you're, you know, you're talking, you're hiring a coach because you wanna make more profit, and, you know, or you wanna make more revenue, and then you realize that it's really not about the volume in your business, it's about the people, and the efficiency and the productivity- Mm-hmm ... et cetera.
**Unknown:** So integrative medicine is really coming down to taking someone through a diagnostic process to really nail down what is truly going on in their body. And I know that the term root cause is thrown around. Yeah. And it's like I gotta find the root cause, and 100% you wanna find the root cause.
**Unknown:** But there's also practitioners that are like, "Oh, well, the root cause is Lyme disease. The root cause is this toxicity. The root cause is you have this virus." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** And I take it even a step further to say, what is the foundational issues? Okay. Yeah. You know, what are the foundational issues going on in your body?
**Unknown:** What are the foundational issues going on in your business? Yeah. Because if you're trying to build health or build a business on a bad- Yeah ... foundation, you're not getting anywhere.
**Unknown:** Yeah. No, I love it. So, so actually- Or it's gonna fall. It's gonna crumble.
**Unknown:** Yeah. And, and that's interesting, 'cause I think this is one thing, isn't it, here, because, uh, now you've taken it back to that foundation of it, the root cause, find the foundation of your business, because you mentioned, for instance, Rockefeller habits earlier. If you looked at those 10 Rockefeller habits and the four that percent of each one of those, that forms the foundation. So what you're saying is you're bringing a, a foundational approach to health in the same way that you could bring a foundational approach to business, to say, okay, what's really going on- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** I use the word at source- Mm-hmm ... that's causing the outcome you're getting. I'll give you two examples, 'cause I think- Yeah ... they're both relevant.
**Unknown:** So let's say, you know, you go to a functional or integrative practitioner, and they say the root cause is Lyme disease. Okay. So the question is, is Lyme disease has been around for thousands of years. Okay.
**Unknown:** They've actually found... So, uh, Lyme disease creates spirochetes. They have found spirochetes in, like, fossils that they've found. And so this organism has been around for thousands of years.
**Unknown:** So why is it creating a problem in the body? Yeah. And so we have to look at the foundation is, do you have properly functioning detox pathways? Do you have- Mm-hmm ...
**Unknown:** a proper functioning liver? Do you poop every day? Mm-hmm. You know, do you- Basic, yeah ...
**Unknown:** have proper lymphatic drainage? Like, these are the foundational elements that your body has to get rid of the bad guys. Mm-hmm. You know, do you have something that is affecting your immune system that's not allowing your immune system to fight this organism?
**Unknown:** Right. So we have to look at those different pieces from... That's more from the biochemical standpoint. Okay.
**Unknown:** But then we also have to ask the better questions around the mental, emotional, and human behavior side- Mm-hmm ... of things. Mm-hmm. Is that I cannot tell you how many times we have dug into a timeline and we found out that a person developed an autoimmune condition or developed, you know, um, massive swelling in their hands that was later diagnosed with, as rheumatoid arthritis, and it was right after the loss of a loved one, right after the loss of a pet, right after, you know, the 2008 financial crash.
**Unknown:** Wow. You know, major, major, you know, events in their life that created massive- Mm ... amounts of either stress, grief, loss, um, shame. Those are some of the key emotions that are tied to chronic illness, is really guilt and shame.
**Unknown:** Wow. Wow. So- It, it's, it's interesting actually because y- you mentioned guilt and shame, and I'm not gonna talk about it now, but I'm just reading Brené Brown's book, Atlas of the Heart, a- and one of the things she talks about a lot in here is about guilt and shame. So I'm, I'm not on that chapter yet, but it's interesting you're talking about it now because I think there is a fundamental thing here, this root cause of you, you have some trauma in your life and, and it manifests in other ways later, is what I'm hearing you say here.
**Unknown:** So you've got to go- 100% ... back to understand what that trauma, what that root cause is in the first place. Now- Yeah ... the point is here, I'm sure a number of the listeners on this podcast are thinking, "Hang on a minute, this sounds a bit weird.
**Unknown:** How do we go back to that and understand what's going on there?" So, so you mentioned about Nick, your husband, he does a lot of this work in terms of helping people as a human behaviorist. Yes. So, so you bring the medical side to it. Yeah.
**Unknown:** You can look at things, in a Western drug company, for instance, will try and diagnose, and you mentioned Lyme disease. You know, Lyme disease exists in this country as well, uh, and is becoming a bigger thing. So, so th- there are drugs that are out there. But you're saying actually there's other things you can do at source to- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** to resolve some of these issues. Yeah. So the biggest thing that I always explain to patients, but also on my podcast, on my webinars, is strategy is key. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And that is the reason why I got into the integrative medicine space, because I felt that there was such a lack of strategy that was happening, and this was, this was conventional medicine or even- Mm ... functional medicine. And what I mean by that is, this is a, like, a great example, is I have a lot of the individuals that I've worked with when it comes to the medical side, they have been a lot of places before they- Yeah ... got to me.
**Unknown:** They've tried a lot of different things. You know, very rarely am I getting someone that's like-I don't feel good, I'm gonna go to the integrative medicine route. At the first port of call, yeah. Most of the time they've been failed by conventional medicine or even other functional wellness doctors, and now they're at my door.
**Unknown:** Okay. And very often they are ... They're, they're frustrated, first of all. Mm.
**Unknown:** And they're overwhelmed, and they're trying to figure out, you know, what the heck is, is going on. But, um, when it comes to, um... I totally forgot my train of thought now. Yeah.
**Unknown:** It happens. Oh. I, I always say it's an age thing, but... So, so, so you're talking about this conventional medicine.
**Unknown:** They, they're frustrated and overwhelmed 'cause they've tried- Yeah ... one thing, it hasn't worked. They don't often come to you as a first port of call because they're trying other things to start with. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And then they come to find you a- as a, as a result of some other research to say, "Okay, what else is going on?" So they're, they're, they're Oh, okay ... leaving and coming back ... strategy, strategy. Yeah.
**Unknown:** That's what we're talking about. Strategy- My gosh ... is key. Yeah, there we go.
**Unknown:** Hey, guys, I have a five-month-old baby- ... so, like, don't judge me right now. We should have mentioned that at the start. Yeah, this is- Oh my gosh.
**Unknown:** Okay. So what they'll say to me very often is, "I've already tried infrared sauna. I already tried a detox protocol. I already tried the elimination diet.
**Unknown:** I already tried that and it didn't work." Yeah. And what I explain to them is that it's not necessarily that it didn't work, but it might not have been done in either the right combination or at the right time. Right, okay. Okay.
**Unknown:** And that's where this root cause foundation comes from. Yeah. So if we are working with someone who has, you know, a condition that they were diagnosed with, and then we dig into that timeline- Yeah ... and we find out that the catalyst, maybe they had Lyme disease in their body, and maybe they had some aches and pains here and there, but no big deal.
**Unknown:** They took a Tylenol, you know, every month and they were fine. Yeah. And then they had the major loss that was, their body went into fight or flight. Mm.
**Unknown:** It was just the tipping point that now they became extremely symptomatic and now all their joints are killing them. They ha- have brain fog, and they can't function. So it's like the Lyme disease was opportunistic. It had the ability to now create more of a negative impact on the body- Mm ...
**Unknown:** because the immune system got shut down in that stress response. Ah, okay. So here's the thing, so actually, so the, so the Lyme disease is already in the body, and then the stress- Correct ... response enabled the Lyme disease to take a bigger hold on what's going on- Yes ...
**Unknown:** physically when the emotions- Exactly ... are at, at risk at the same time. 100%. Okay.
**Unknown:** So in this person, we have a lot of things to consider- Yeah ... of where do we start? Yeah. Do, do we really start with killing the Lyme disease, or is the nervous system so taxed- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** because of the stress response- Yeah ... that we need to get that to a better place, which will then allow the immune system to work better so that the body can actually do its job and get rid or fight off the Lyme disease? Yeah. Okay, okay.
**Unknown:** So we have to be extremely strategic, but we also have to leverage better testing, and that's our motto, is, "We don't guess, we test." Yeah. And one of the really interesting things that my husband does specifically is we... First of all, we have some technologies that help us do DNA testing. Okay.
**Unknown:** But we do two different types. So we do DNA testing to figure out what is stressing your DNA. All right. And also it picks up on foreign DNA.
**Unknown:** So there's DNA of the Lyme disease bacteria. There is DNA of a virus. There is DNA for any type of, uh, organism. So we look at, okay, what's happening with your DNA?
**Unknown:** Is, is it that you have, um, certain pathogens in your body? Mm. Or is your DNA telling us that your liver's under stress, or your kidneys are under stress, or whatever the case may be? Okay.
**Unknown:** Wow. Right. So then the secondary thing we do is we look at what is going to neutralize the stress on your DNA, what is going to make it better? So that's how we nail down your body needs X, Y, and Z to- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** heal. And sometimes that is going to be certain supplements, and then sometimes that is going to be infrared sauna technology. Sometimes that is going to be, um, scar release work. Uh, sometimes it's something called neurofeedback.
**Unknown:** Mm. It just depends on the person, where their body is at, and what is the best starting point based on their DNA. Wow. Wow.
**Unknown:** So strategy is absolutely necessary- Mm ... when it comes to the healing process, and strategy is absolutely necessary when it comes to running a business. Yeah. Yeah.
**Unknown:** 'Cause otherwise, if you don't have that strategy, you're just spinning your wheels- Yeah ... feeling like you're getting nowhere. A- and it's interesting, 'cause this is where this integrative piece comes together, isn't it? Because what I'm hearing there is you can work with business owners to help them heal their body, 'cause a lot of them are sick in some way a- and that's causing the stress release that they're, they're seeing.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. Um, or sorry, stress response, rather than stress release. They're seeing the stress response. A- and their business is, you know, in some ways a manifestation of what's going on for them internally as well.
**Unknown:** Yeah. They are- Yeah ... the business, especially when it's a, um, you know, they're a founder, owner running the business. However many staff they've got there.
**Unknown:** Actually, we see a lot of this coming out, whereas the individual is creating the problems in the business. Yeah. So what you're saying is go back to source, help them understand what's going on in their body, and you're doing that through a number of test regimes. Um, you know, talking about DNA testing and how to neutralize the, the, the stress on the body in the first place.
**Unknown:** Yeah. But you're saying the same we can apply to a business here. Because we can now look at a business, and we've got a number of tools that we use within Scaling Up and other to help us do this. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** Assess the business and then understand what strategy do we need to put in place to actually, as you said there, neutralize the stress on the business in the same way as you neutralize the stress on the body before building on the next stage. Yeah. Is that a, is that a fair summary of the way you're thinking? I think the biggest thing that, like, the passion behind what I, what I'm doing when it comes to, like, integrating both the health and the business side is that- Mm ...
**Unknown:** there are so many individuals that, first of all, you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. So most people are walking around not feeling great, but don't even know any different. Yeah.
**Unknown:** They don't know any different, so they've settled for the lack of sleep. They've settled for always feeling stressed. They've settled for the brain fog. They've settled for the aches and pains.
**Unknown:** They've settled for all of that. Yeah. But then on top of it, there's, like, two other things that I see. So I see that these people bust their butts and then they retire, and maybe you could retire early because you had a successful business.
**Unknown:** And now you spend your retirement, you're not golfing, you're not having fun, you're not vacationing, you're at doctor's appointments. Yeah. Yeah. Because your adrenaline finally backed off because you're not, you know, killing yourself working 10, 12-hour days anymore.
**Unknown:** Mm. So your adrenaline goes back into a normal range, and all your symptoms come out. 'Cause think about adrenaline, so, like, if you're running from a tiger- Yeah ... you're not, you don't, you're not feeling aches, pains, brain fog.
**Unknown:** You're not feeling any of that. You know? Your body is like, "Adrenaline, go." Like, "Get out of danger." So when y- people run on adrenaline for years upon years upon years, and then that adrenaline drops and it bottoms out, I should say. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And now they're like, "Oh my gosh. I feel absolutely horrible." Yeah. And they're going to doctor's appointments left and right. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And- It, it, it's interesting. This is almost, you know, we, we see it all the time, don't we? With the, with the, the... In fact, I was about to say business owner, but this happens to anybody.
**Unknown:** They go on holiday and they get sick. Yep. Yep. And that's one of the things- Exactly ...
**Unknown:** but, but actually when you come to sell your business or retire from your business or, or move on from your business, actually that, that can last a lot longer. Because actually you've not just got the two-week holiday sitting on the beach, you've now got potentially the future ahead of you. Yeah. And therefore there's a lot of other issues coming out of this.
**Unknown:** So that's qui- I love that analogy. That's a whole different podcast too, with retirement. Like, one of my mentors, Demartini, says, he's like, "Retirement should never interfere with your work." Like, meaning your purpose. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And I like, I love that because retiring, you know, for a lot of people is like, "Well, I'm done working. I'm just gonna sit around and drink pina coladas." But- Yeah ... it's like, if you were, if... You really should always still be congruent with your purpose.
**Unknown:** Maybe you're doing it in just a different way. Yeah. And so, but, you know, and then the amount of business owners that are, business owners and per- professionals in general that are burn, getting burnt out, and then that burnout leads to a serious diagnosis and then they're forced to leave work. Yeah.
**Unknown:** You know? Yeah. That's, that's... And especially if you are, you know, a, a small to medium sized business owner, like, that is, that can just- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** destroy everything you've worked for. Yeah. Yeah. We see it all the time, don't we?
**Unknown:** We see it and we hear of it when people have had to close the door, and I, I often talk about a model which I, I learned through my work with Shirlaws many years ago about hitting the brick wall. And when sometimes when people hit the second brick wall, as we call it, actually that causes dis-ease in the body. Yeah. Um, and that dis-ease can, can manifest in many ways.
**Unknown:** Right. But a lot of it is because they've not got their business set up properly, so they're having to work in the business- Yep ... rather than on the business, and it takes its toll on them as an individual. Yeah.
**Unknown:** So I think there's a lot to be said for that in terms of that burnout and that serious diagnosis, because actually if you slam up against that brick wall, your business is gonna suffer unless you've got it set up properly, as well as your health suffering, which is the biggest issue for most people. Yeah. Um, so- I think that one of the best things that I ever heard was conflict avoided is conflict multiplied. Mm.
**Unknown:** And this, like, the context that I first heard it made a lot of sense when it came to, um, managing people. Yeah. Yeah. But the same thing is, like, if you're avoiding the fact that your home life is suffering, if you're avoiding the fact that you feel like crap, and maybe feeling like crap is just you feel really run down and tired all the time or achy.
**Unknown:** Yeah. You know? And if you're avoiding that or you're avoiding the fact that you know that your business is leaking cash, like- Mm ... there, it is going to blow up, no matter who you are or, or what the situation is.
**Unknown:** It's gonna blow up eventually. Yeah. Yeah. And so we need to be able to take these things head on and not just keep pushing them to the side.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Because it's, it's not... Like you said, it's like the last thing that anybody would ever wanna do is put their, you know, heart and soul into a business and then watch it crumble because something went wrong with their health. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** Or something went wrong with their relationship and now their husband or wife is retaliating against them. Like, I've seen that before too. Yeah. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And that's a big thing, and we've all seen that in terms of, you know, I talk about hitting the brick wall, but actually that can be, that can re- result in divorce as well, or separation, because the partners don't understand each other. And I, I saw a business owner only recently, um, running a great business, medium sized business. A- a- and he kept on saying to me, "I'm hating the business, but I'm making loads of money." Mm-hmm. And it, something had to change, and I haven't, he hasn't come back to us yet, but at the end of the day, he needs to resu- resolve some of these issues because that hate in the business is gonna manifest in different ways for him and the business short to medium term.
**Unknown:** Yeah. So I think there's something that's got to be done there. So look, we, we- 100% ... we, we said we had talked for 45 minutes now, and I think we've, we've, we've only just ti- touched the tip of the iceberg of some of the things we could delve into here.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Um, so, so I, I'd love to put this out to you. Could we, could we reconvene and do a second episode of this to look at some of the res- resolutions to this? 'Cause I think we've, we've, we've discussed some of the, the problems people see.
**Unknown:** You talked about some of the things in terms of, uh, you know, understanding DNA and looking how do you neutralize things in the body. But I think there's a whole story now to be talked about in terms of what do we do to help these business owners-... founders resolve these issues because you were there, you've seen it, you've been at that burnout phase, and you've now discovered a way out of it. Yeah.
**Unknown:** You've seen the light. And, and, and, and actually, you know, Lordy, Lordy, it's coming to us. We can actually see a way to move this forward because there are systems out there that help people move health and business forwards, and you've, you've seen some of those. So I'd love to delve into that, um, if you're up for it, for a- I would be down ...
**Unknown:** second I love it. Second, second one in that case. Um, so before we close this episode in that case, um, question I'd love to ask you, and, and this is, I think I know the answer to it, but if you could go back and give the younger Dr. Nicole some advice, what's the one piece of advice you think she should have heard that would have transformed your life to get you to where you are now?
**Unknown:** Oof. That's loaded, Phil. Yeah. Yeah.
**Unknown:** We can give you three pieces of advice if you need. Hmm. I think that, you know, just because you can do it all- Yeah ... doesn't mean you should.
**Unknown:** Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is, is a big one. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** But also too is looking at, I think giving all of the four quadrants equal energy. And w- what I mean by that is I felt very fulfilled because my business and my... Like, the, the model of my business was to help change healthcare, and change people's lives in the process. Mm-hmm.
**Unknown:** And we did that. We 100% did that. Yeah. And there was, there was a lot that was sacrificed to do that.
**Unknown:** Yeah. And I don't regret it by any means, but I wish there was someone there to tell me how to also put myself and to put my family at an equal playing field- Yeah ... of the business. Yeah.
**Unknown:** And, and also someone there to help... I don't wanna even say that word limiting beliefs because, yes, there were 100% limiting beliefs, but there was just, um, there was just a lack of wisdom there that I really wish someone who'd been there, done that- Mm-hmm ... could have provided, and that obviously could have easily been a Scaling Up- Yeah ... coach.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. I just didn't know what that was at the time. Yeah. And I see it even now as I talk to people about Scaling Up.
**Unknown:** It's like they're like, "Oh, wow, like, that's a, there's so many steps in there. That's a lot," and, you know, it, "I'm a small business. Does this really apply to me?" And- Yeah ... yeah, it applies to you.
**Unknown:** It applies. It applies to you because everything that we talked about today- Yeah ... is probably gonna happen to you at some point- Yeah ... in your professional career because you don't have that strong foundation if you're not looking at people, and you're not looking- Mm-hmm ...
**Unknown:** at strategy, and you're not looking at execution, and especially if you ain't looking at cash. Yeah. Because a lot of people are just very happy. Like, I was always, because I was naive and young, I was just like, "Revenue.
**Unknown:** I just wanna-" Yeah. "... I wanna double my revenue, I wanna double my revenue, I wanna double my revenue." Who the heck cares if you double your revenue if it, you don't make any profit? Yeah.
**Unknown:** Yeah, and it's you that's running, you're, you're running, spinning your tires, but you're not going anywhere, and- Exactly ... the result, as you said, was that burnout, and that stress, and disease that af- manifests in his body at some stage, which is not what any of us want. And it was honestly so much deeper than that. It was just so defeating.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. Like, so defeating to sit there and say like, "I have worked so hard for so long- Mm ... to almost feel like I have nothing to show for it." Mm-hmm. And it was just a very emotional moment when I had to really, like, process that and have that conversation with myself- Yeah ...
**Unknown:** not even with my husband, like, just with myself, to say, "You know, you've definitely changed a lot of people's lives, but you are capped now. You are capped." And, and this will be for part two, but it was either... It, it was, it was really coming down to completely abandoning my mission of life- Right ... because I burnt myself out to the point that I was just like, "I can't do this anymore." Yeah.
**Unknown:** And, you know, so s- some people, they get forced, like they get sick, and they get- Yeah ... forced to be done. And I didn't, I didn't get there. I more so got to an emotional low place of I really just, I, I, I can't believe this is the outcome of all of this dedication.
**Unknown:** Mm-hmm. But I also decided at a, in that moment to say, "I'm not gonna not be part of my son's life in order to continue this mission. I'm gonna figure out the 2.0 version- Wow. Wow ...
**Unknown:** so that I can have a life, enjoy it, and be with my family, and also still make an impact on the world." Yeah. What an amazing thing, isn't it? 'Cause that's that integration, family, self, impact, business. You're doing it all, effectively, but you're doing it in a balanced way now, as opposed to what you were doing before is misjudged.
**Unknown:** You were just charging after one thing without understanding what was really going on. So there's a massive learning there. So, so I love that, that thing about... And I'm just, I wrote that down there, just because you can do it all doesn't mean you should.
**Unknown:** I think that's a, a key message that many business owners-Need to hear, should hear, must hear- Yeah ... to help them move forward. Because otherwise, when we see it all the time, they get stuck in the trap and, and they'll limit their own ability. But worst of all, they'll actually dis-ease, de-stress themselves, cause other frictions in their life later on, and the business will fall apart one way or the other because of that.
**Unknown:** So, um, so I love that as a- And you have to continue to pep talk yourself with that. Like, I actually kill, kill it at making websites, and I was, like- ... about to, like, get in there and start doing something the other day, and I was like, "Stop it. Stop it." It's not your job.
**Unknown:** "Stop it. This is not, this is not how you spend your time." And you know, that's a, a, a- and interesting, isn't it? Because when we talk about the things we do in f- in scaling up, you know, we talk about the functional accountability chart, and the process accountability chart, and help people understand. And, and you mentioned key function, function flow maps earlier to me.
**Unknown:** You know, that's it about understanding where your name sits across the board as CEO, and where we need to extract you from it, 'cause that's not your job. Yeah. But so pe- so few people hear that, don't they? I remember, and I've mentioned this on this podcast a lot of times, the first book my accountant gave me in 2005 was Michael E.
**Unknown:** Gerber's E-Myth Revisited. I can see it on my bookshelf across there. A- a- and in fact, I've got two copies there, 'cause Michael E. Gerber si- signed one for me when I met him a number of years later.
**Unknown:** Um, but the key was there, don't try and do it all, otherwise you'll, otherwise you'll be constrained in your business and you'll end up hating your business, or worst of all- Right ... dying as a result of it. Yeah. And that's the key.
**Unknown:** That's it. And that can sound extreme, but it's, it's accurate. Yeah, exactly. So, so, so Dr.
**Unknown:** Nicole, I've really enjoyed this. It's been fascinating conversation, and there is lots more we can talk about here. And I think l- let's, um, let's agree to come back and have another conversation. Um, if people want to find you, you mentioned your podcast, and I've listened to a number of these episodes before, where can people find you in the short term before we get back together again?
**Unknown:** Yeah, sure. I, um ... Well, I have two podcasts, because I'm an overachiever. So I have Integrative Wellness Radio, which is all things related to integrative medicine, and then I have the Integrative Entrepreneur podcast as well.
**Unknown:** Okay. Which is where we talk about the integration of the integrative medicine and business, and human behavior as well, 'cause my husband and I do that, uh, collaboration together. So there's some really cool stuff in there, and I will say that a lot of it has been inspired by Verne with Scaling Up. Yeah.
**Unknown:** It's been inspired by Patrick Lencioni, who I love. Yeah. Um, so it's, you know, really some of the key people in the industry that, um, that have personally inspired myself, that, uh, inspired me to get on a podcast and talk about it. Wow.
**Unknown:** Wow. Well, that's brilliant, and, and I love that, because there's so much knowledge there. And I think, you know, you, you and Nick are running this great business now. You've, you've talked about some of the things you're going through.
**Unknown:** And as you said, you've also got a five-month-old baby, and you've also mentioned that you've just moved house as well. So actually, there's a whole load of things which you've had to put in place to enable you to do these things, so- Yeah ... um- Sometimes I wonder if, like, my mental state is okay- ... because I just like to create a lot of chaos and then let it, you know, dissipate, so- Find a way of dealing with it.
**Unknown:** With the ... Hey, look, that's ... You, you need to go talk to your husband about those things. He might be able to help- Yeah, right ...
**Unknown:** with that one as well. I'm like- Yeah ... "You can just fix this." Fix the head. I, I've really enjoyed it, and thank you for taking the time out of your morning to have a conversation with us on the, uh, Sparks podcast.
**Unknown:** I've really enjoyed it, and, um, I look forward to, to getting you back on to talk further and in more detail about some of those things. So, uh, thank you. Yes, I would love that. I hope you've enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as I've enjoyed recording it.
**Unknown:** This is just one of the great conversations I've had the privilege of being part of since I started recording the Sparks by Ignium podcast. So please, go back and listen to some of the others. There's some great content in there from some great contributors. And also, while you're at it, please leave a review of this show with your comments, because that helps other people like you find this content, and we want to bring about the change that we really know matters to people.
**Unknown:** It helps us grow. And also, think about what actions you want to take, 'cause there's no point just listening passively. We want you to pick it up and do something with it. So what's the three key things you want to do?
**Unknown:** I can't hold you accountable, but if you want to, drop me a note, phil@igniumconsult.com. We're always keen to listen to what you have to say, and actually introduce guests to us that you do think will bring relevance to other people. We wish you well. Give us a call.
**Unknown:** Let us know what you think. Give us a review. Thank you.
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About Integrative You Radio
Integrative You Radio is a root cause medicine and integrative medicine podcast hosted by Dr. Nicole Rivera and Dr. Nick Carruthers — two integrative doctors who build personalized wellness protocols from your DNA, minerals, hormones, gut, and nervous system rather than from a population template. Looking for an integrative doctor who reads your labs together instead of in isolation? This is the show.
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